Power Steering Problem 2.4 TD

[AnneinWales]

If anyone could help, I would be very grateful. Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer any advice, even if it's not good news!

I have a problem with the power steering on my hilux surf (LN130 2.4 TD Manual '91). I know next to nothing about steering outside of basic concepts (am off to try to get myself a bit better informed via the net right now, but for the minute I'm stuck lol!)

The top and bottom of it is that it went into a local garage for general service, brakes etc and came out with no power steering. Prior to going in, there were no unusual noises, wheezes or problems with the power steering, I've had this vehicle a long time and know the sound and feel of it pretty well.

When hubby picked it up, they told him that the hole for the shaft of the steering box (?) was wearing oval. Does that make any sense? To sort it, they got someone locally to fabricate a round collar to go into the oval hole. They stuck a not horrendous amount (about £37 if I remember right) onto the bill for this (including new fluid). Feel free to correct me if I'm talking nonsense, this is what I've gleaned from a few second hand conversations and I've not been able to check for myself

However .... as soon as it arrived back home it was obvious that there was no power steering, at all, so it went straight back to the garage and has been there ever since.

Initially, they thought it would be an airlock, so tried bleeding the system. They were at it for about an hour, still no power steering so they sent hubby home in a loan 4x4. Since then, they have bled it again, stripped the power steering pump and are now saying that there must be a problem with the steering box itself.

I've had a chat with Milners today to find out the price of a recon steering box. Ouch. I'm trying to get some more info before running off and ordering parts.

From what I've described, has anyone got any useful advice on
1. How likely is it that the steering box is at fault and is there anything else that should be checked before changing the box out?

2. If the box has failed, is it normal to go from no problems straight to complete fail with no prior warning? (just to be clear, there was no wheezing, 'breathing' or loss of fluid, and now it's not even making a partial attempt)

3. Could anything that has been done have caused the fault, or do I just have to chalk it up to complete coincidence?

4. Is there anything else that the garage may have overlooked, or a special trick to bleeding the power steering system?

I'm trying to be fair and I need to resolve this asap as the garage have very kindly let us have a loan vehicle while the Surf is unusable. It just doesn't quite sit well to go and spend the best part of £500 on something that no-one is sure (yet) that we need. The garage have been very fair so far, I trust the owner and I don't think for one minute that he is ripping me off, but I do think he is a bit stumped as to where to go next with this one, given the age and value of the vehicle.

Any ideas, knowledgeable folks?

[Albannach]

Personally, in over 30 years in the trade, I've never known a steering box to fail. If one did fail, I'd be surprised if it failed catastrophically and without warning.

When they serviced the truck, did they change or move the drive belts? If they did, the one on the power steering pump is probably slack. It needs to be much tighter than they think.

[AnneinWales]

Hi, thank you so much for replying :-) Interesting feedback, and kind of backs up my gut feel, so it's certainly something that I will ask them to check out. My (admittedly tiny and non mechanical) brain struggles to see how something with moving components and fluids and seals and stuff could just suddenly stop doing its job without any warning.

Stupid question alert ..... yep, here it comes. Is there any measure or guide for 'much tighter'?

Thanks again

[Albannach]

Is there any measure or guide for 'much tighter'?

There should normally be a little bit of slack on a drive belt and the specification says this one is no different. But if there's any slack at all, the Power Steering won't work properly.

So - "Much tighter" = No slack at all.

[wishbone]

I hope you're not paying this garage to fix something they have broke ?

If I was you I'd get the truck back asap and find a different mechanic to fit a decent used steering box for you. Hopefully the garage will pay for the replacement as they seem to have knackered your one.

[NiftyNev]

I want to know more about this round collar in an oval hole (or was that a square peg in a round hole), either way, a better explanation of what was done or some pics would help.

Nev

[NiftyNev]

Maybe what happened is the power steering pump was a little loose, on the mounting bracket which can make the pump move around and this wears the mounting hole and the bolt. Maybe the bushed the bracket. In this case they would have removed it to do the work so do check belt tension. If that's ok it may just be an air lock.IIRC there is a bleed nipple on the top power steering box so look for that when bleeding.

Nev.

[BUSHWHACKER]

I have heard of the power steering pump shafts, shearing in the past.
It looks as though nothing is wrong because the pulley is spinning and the belts are tight but the shaft isn't physically connected to the pump.

Get them to check that the fluid is circulating first (by removing one of the hoses from the steering box) before removing/replacing the steering box.

[TonyN]

The P/S belt tensioner bolts on the 2.4 are hard to reach, and hard to hold the pump under tension while you lock it in place. Also the belt is very short, so needs to feel quite tight comapred to the other longer fan belts to not slip. 99% of all P/S woes I see on 2.4's are just this. It doesn't have to be squealing to be slipping.

If its airlocked it'll make all sorts of whirry noises till it bleeds itself through.

Look for the bleed nipple Nev mentioned, but I've never needed to use it.

[AnneinWales]

Brilliant, thank you everyone. You're just lovely.

Right, a quick round up, just to make sure I've understood.

1. Check, check, check the belt tension. Slipping doesn't necessarily mean squealing. Is it worth replacing the belt to make sure it hasn't gone hard / worn down?

2. My guess is that Nev has it right about the square peg / round hole scenario. I haven't personally seen my Surf for 2 months (!), so when I can manage to get down there in working hours I will double check that it's just a bush for the bracket to hold the pump steady.

3. Bleed again, including the bleed nipple on the steering box

4. If still no joy, check that the pump is actually circulating (presumably release a hose while it's meant to be under pressure and stand well back?)

5. If still no joy, go ahead and swap out the steering box

6. If doing 5, have very interesting 'discussion' with garage over who pays for this.

I'll be back on the forum to update as soon as I have news. In the meantime, thanks to everyone for taking the time to help.

Incidentally I have been driving an automatic Discovery on loan while she has been away. It reminded me exactly why I love my Surf and will keep her on the road for as long as possible :-)

[NiftyNev]

Belt is cheap so if it looks like it sits below the top of the pulley sides replace it. V belts rely on the sides of the belt to turn the pulley, so if they are worn and sit down in the pulley, then more tension is required which can damage bearings and break shafts.

Nev