Starting problems

[RickB]

I know that there have been a lot of questions regarding this, but I have a problem which is baffling me.
On turning the ignition key and lots of clicking is heard from the engine bay. A fan starts up as well.
After much checking of batteries, cables, fuses, et al. I bought a starter motor from a forum member and finding a break in this fine UK summer weather, I changed the SM. Thats a job in itself!
Changed the SM's over and everything is back together. But, it STILL doesn't start. Only lots of clicking. (and the air turning blue in my general vicinity!!!
I bench tested the original SM, and it seems fine. Battery connected to starter solenoid and it fair blasts out from the housing, tried the motor and it turned slowly. I took that apart and the commutator and brushes were in good nick with plenty of brush length left. Commutator was fine. Did the same with the new starter before installation and found everything to be identical including the operation of solenoid and motor speed.
Now I know the batteries are good, so my next step was to check the starter relay, but I b**ggered if I can locate it.
I have a Hilux/4runner haynes manual and a Toyota Manual downloaded from T'internet. Both manuals point to differnet locations.
One says RHS engine bay complete with pic, but my equivalent turn out to be the glow plug relay.
Other book says its in the Fuse box on the LHS of the engine bay, but the relay in the middle controls a fan.
Any help or suggestions please gents.
A. to locate the starter relay.
B. Further areas to investigate, before I get it towed to a garage.
Rick

[wishbone]

Remove all the earth cables, clean the connections back to shiny metal, re-attatch and grease. Not sure if there's an engine earth strap but I'm assuming there is one. Thats the one I'd check first.

About to do all my earths to try and get my system running above 14V. Right now it's at 13.98.

Also check the battery terminals. My stock ones hardly get tight enough and need a bit of encouragement (hammer) to bed down enough to get a proper grip.

Rob.

[MattF]

Earth bonding straps or battery related, as suggested above. How do you know your batteries are in good nick, btw?

[RickB]

Sounds like a plan...
Cheers Gents.
WRT batteries. I removed them from the vehicle and charged them fully. Haven't done a drop test, but I can get that done easily enough.
I have checked most of the earth points for security but I haven't found a main earthing strap from the engine to the chassis. I will use a jump lead as a temporary measure, and if that solves the problem, then I'll make a permanent earthing strap.
Still don't know where that pesky starter relay is, though.

[wishbone]

Might be wrong (often am ) but I always thought the 'solenoid' on the starter is the relay ?

[RickB]

No. The relay allows full battery current to energise the solenoid. Both my manuals show it as a separate component, but as I mentioned before, one book places it RHS engine bay and the other says that it is in the main fuse box on the LHS of the engine compartment...

[stormforce]

If i remember rightly from previous breakers there was a starter relay on the n/side inner wing by the glow plug relay and a similar size

[wishbone]

It seems weird to me to have a relay to switch a relay ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_solenoid

But if Toyota decided to do that then fair enough

Rob.

[RickB]

I tried to upload the wiring diagram, but it exceeds the limit. It clearly shows that the relay and the solenoid are two separate units!
Richard, there is a glow plug relay on RHS and next to it a round unit with two terminals. I am unable to identify it.
It doesn't conform to a four pin relay that i was expecting nor does it look like one...
The books show how to test the relay operation by checking continuity between terminals 1 and 3 and open cct between the other two when voltage is not applied

[RickB]

Thanks to all
Problem now fixed. It seems that the chassis earth connection from the engine was broken. I could not find the cable!
Connected a 25mm2 jump lead from one of the batteries neg terminal to the engine and hey presto, she fired up first time.
I have made a new strap and fitted it.
Back on the road!!!
Job's a good 'un!!!

ps Got a spare starter motor for sale if anyone is interested!!!!!