Water/methanol injection

[Terry Syd]

I've ordered a water injection system from Devil's Own and I'm going to put it on my 2LT. I remember reading on this forum of someone that had done the same thing and said it was one of the better mods that he had done. If anyone has a system on their Surf could they please post their results?

Here is the thread I started on Devils Own website -

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...-4td-1167.html

I'm especially interested in the nozzle size, the nozzle position, the mixture strength (20% methanol?) and the boost pressure that the injection system is set at.

[cataclysm]

I've ordered a water injection system from Devil's Own and I'm going to put it on my 2LT.

Bit of an major performance mod on such a lowly engine.
I've only seen water injection on high-boost petrols before.

Let us know how it turns out.

[Terry Syd]

Us$225

The system only costs US$225, compared to an intercooler or exhaust system it isn't that much. As I indicated in the thread linked above, my mechanical boost controller stops feeding extra fuel at some point, perhaps 7 psi. I'm running 9 psi, so at some point the extra methanol will help take up the slack from the boost controller.

I'm also running 33% vegetable oil in my biodiesel, so there maybe coking issues in my head. The water injection should clean up the 'swirl chamber' that is cut in the top of the pistons and also clear any deposits that would cause turbulence near the valve faces.

There is a reference on this forum to a link of an article or long post where someone was explaining his WI system on his Surf, unfortunately that link no longer works. Does anyone know where I can access that information?

[Sancho]

The system only costs US$225, compared to an intercooler or exhaust system it isn't that much. As I indicated in the thread linked above, my mechanical boost controller stops feeding extra fuel at some point, perhaps 7 psi. I'm running 9 psi, so at some point the extra methanol will help take up the slack from the boost controller.

I'm also running 33% vegetable oil in my biodiesel, so there maybe coking issues in my head. The water injection should clean up the 'swirl chamber' that is cut in the top of the pistons and also clear any deposits that would cause turbulence near the valve faces.

There is a reference on this forum to a link of an article or long post where someone was explaining his WI system on his Surf, unfortunately that link no longer works. Does anyone know where I can access that information?

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17862

[cataclysm]

I'm also running 33% vegetable oil in my biodiesel, so there maybe coking issues in my head. The water injection should clean up the 'swirl chamber' that is cut in the top of the pistons and also clear any deposits that would cause turbulence near the valve faces.

Fair enough, and the best o' luck to you;
But I don't think water injection is going to help with carbon deposits... it would probably make them worse if anything (by reducing combustion chamber temps).
A good fast drive up a hill is usually the best thing for clearing deposits off valves.

[Terry Syd]

Thanks

Sancho, thanks very much for that link. So he was running a 3L with 10 psi boost. He had a progressive controller that started at 7 psi and continued to 10 psi. He used a 5 gph nozzle.

Well, that gives me something to start on. I had thought that a 2 or 3 GPH nozzle would be in the ball park for my 2L. Its beginning to look like a 3 GPH may end up on the engine. I won't be running a progressive controller (at this stage at least), I'll be using a simple pressure controller and setting it for a given manifold pressure.

I noticed that he was only running water at that stage. The significant intercooling effect is achieved with a bit of methanol. It vaporises at 64.5C and will drop the manifold temperature down quick smart.

Cataclysm, if you do a bit of research on WI it will indicate that one of the siginificant benefits of WI is that it cleans out the combustion chamber.

[ssray]

Mr syd, congrats i was going to have a look at that when funds allow(rover diesel now) rather than using meth you may want to look at denutured alcohol
as its less dangerous and gives almost the same results.

one of the boys on the rover forum was aiming for 200bhp with hybrid turbo big injectors and w/i but only got 150 ish, its supposed to make you feel like your driving in winter with all that lovley cold air getting sucked in.

Ray

[Terry Syd]

ethanol/methanol

If I was using the alcohol primarily as a fuel additive I would use the ethanol/denatured alcohol as the ethanol has more energy content than methanol. However, I want to drop the intake manifold temperature, the methanol works better for that.

I've started a seperate thread on the DevilsOwn forum to find out if the detonation limits are the same for ethanol as for methanol. The latent heat of evaporation appears to only be around 30% different between the two alcohols. The BTU content appears to only be around 23% different. (Although depending upon which authority you look at it could be anything from 145% to 18%!!)

The fellow on DevilsOwn forum indicated that after a WOT run on the water/methanol injection you can put you hand on the intake manifold and it is cold to the touch. Heck, you can't get that effect with an intercooler.

[Medieval Dave]

I've driven bikenuts's truck, it works really well with the LPG and water, quite a bit of extra go when you turn it on. Might be worth getting in touch with him.

[Terry Syd]

Updates

Is he still posting on the forum? Perhaps if someone knew his personal email they might get in contact with him and see if he would respond to this thread. I'd love to hear about his experiments using some methanol in the mix.

[Bikenuts]

Hi,
Sorry for the delay in replying; usualy only pop in for advice when things go wrong so I don't come here very often :-). Still running the water injection, I tried Methanol but got very high EGTs, I've got the LPG for extra fuel already so you might find it more usful - especialy if you're running higher boost than stock. I'd start at 5% and watch your EGT's. If you're running a fixed presure switch I'd set it for just below max stock boost - that way you won't waste methanol when you don't need it.

Bikenuts

[Terry Syd]

LPG + methanol

Thanks for the reply. I figured you might get some overfueling with some methanol if you were already running the LPG, looks like that was the case. A couple of us are going to put the Devilsown system on our 2.4 engines. We've got a thread going over on the Devilsown forum. I'll cut-and-paste your recent post over to that thread to keep the others informed.

[Bikenuts]

Terry,
Hi a bit more info for you; when I talk about having a 3L I meant 3 litre 1kzte not the 2.8 litre 3L sorry for any confusion. I based my nozzle size calculations on 50% of WOT fuel consumption and 100psi at the nozzle and 12psi boost - works OK. As a minor aside I’ve had some problems with algae / slime in my water tank and pipes, I’m going to try copper plumbing to stop this but I seam to remember copper and Methanol don’t mix so you might need to try something like UV LEDs.

[Medieval Dave]

How about a miltons (baby bottle steriliser) tablet every now and again. that should prevent the algea without rotting your pipes?

[dieselboy]

forgive me if im wrong, but wouldnt lowering the temp in the combustion chamber be worse for the diesels?
i thought water injection was to stop pre-ignition or pinking? diesel fuel is different from petrol so it shouldnt pink as i understand.

but if it works it works it works!