Turbo and Pump Advice Needed!!

[wibblywobbly]

This is one for all the technical guru's out there.

SSRX 2.4 TD Auto '93 EFI

Ever since I bought my Surf (personal import - no warranty) I have been concerned about the apparent lack of power, thanks to one guy on here who confirmed the typical speed with and without overdrive I realised that something was definately wrong.

I have had the Surf checked out today and this is the report:

• There are no air leaks - This was tested using some weird spray that changes colour if it is being sucked in anywhere.
• The power is definately way down on what it should be.
• The air and fuel filters have been replaced (Milners items, so quality parts).
• The turbo was attached to the diagnostic equipment and reported that it wasn't being charged.
• The boost gauge reads zero all of the time.
• The fuel injector reported a malfunction, but this was possibly attributed to the turbo not sucking through the diesel properly.
• The problem with the turbo was put down to either a cracked charge canister or some other fault that couldn't diagnosed without stripping it.

Suggested cure:

New turbo from Mr Turbo at around £350 plus fitting.
New injector pump...price not known plus fitting.

Questions:

• Does anyone know if the diagnosis is likely to be accurate and is a new turbo the only answer?
• Does anyone know if a turbo can be obtained any cheaper.
• Would it be worth replacing the fuel pump as well, and what do these cost?
• Is there any other likely cause that could have resulted in a mis-diagnosis...before I part with my hard earned cash?
• Is there a manual anywhere on line that explains the emmissions system, in order that the mechanic can ensure that it is all working and connected properly?
• There is a turbo programmer inside the Surf, I have no idea how it works and have set everything to zero. Would this have affected the diagnostics, I assumed that it would have the same effect as resetting it to default factory outputs.
• More info on Electronic Boost Controllers at http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech/2003_4.htm#

My apologies for so many questions, and if I can provide any more information to anyone before they are able to answer any of them then please ask, and I will do my best by way of a response.

Many thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this.

Cheers Guys

Rob G

[Vagrant No2]

A lack of turbo boost will normally be evident by clouds of black smoke , poor acceleration , sometimes a rattle from engine . The injector pump is only conected to turbo by ECU telling it engine status . Therefore if turbo is not boosting pressure the pump will run on the information received from ECU . So if turbo is changed the pump will operate better .
The turbo only has air going through it , no fuel
Basic info for you without getting to tecy .

Rick

PS is turbo waste gate stuck open

[wibblywobbly]

Reply to Vagrant No 2

Thanks Rick

To assist with the diagnosis, the Surf hardly smokes at all, just the usual puff when hoofing it after slow town driving.
Yes, it does rattle, that was one of the clues that something was amiss.
Yes, the acceleration is abysmal, and up hill it is way down on power.

Keep em coming!

Cheers

Rob G

[marky]

as the turbo registers 0 psi then i would start there
The turbo was attached to the diagnostic equipment and reported that it wasn't being charged.
The boost gauge reads zero all of the time.
but where do you start & how much.
is there not a forum member near you who could swap turbo for test purposes.
as this would confirm the problem and save you money at the same time

[andy]

This is one for all the technical guru's out there.

SSRX 2.4 TD Auto '93 EFI

Ever since I bought my Surf (personal import - no warranty) I have been concerned about the apparent lack of power, thanks to one guy on here who confirmed the typical speed with and without overdrive I realised that something was definately wrong.

I have had the Surf checked out today and this is the report:

• There are no air leaks - This was tested using some weird spray that changes colour if it is being sucked in anywhere.
• The power is definately way down on what it should be.
• The air and fuel filters have been replaced (Milners items, so quality parts).
• The turbo was attached to the diagnostic equipment and reported that it wasn't being charged.
• The boost gauge reads zero all of the time.
• The fuel injector reported a malfunction, but this was possibly attributed to the turbo not sucking through the diesel properly.
• The problem with the turbo was put down to either a cracked charge canister or some other fault that couldn't diagnosed without stripping it.

Suggested cure:

New turbo from Mr Turbo at around £350 plus fitting.
New injector pump...price not known plus fitting.

Questions:

• Does anyone know if the diagnosis is likely to be accurate and is a new turbo the only answer?
• Does anyone know if a turbo can be obtained any cheaper.
• Would it be worth replacing the fuel pump as well, and what do these cost?
• Is there any other likely cause that could have resulted in a mis-diagnosis...before I part with my hard earned cash?
• Is there a manual anywhere on line that explains the emmissions system, in order that the mechanic can ensure that it is all working and connected properly?
• There is a turbo programmer inside the Surf, I have no idea how it works and have set everything to zero. Would this have affected the diagnostics, I assumed that it would have the same effect as resetting it to default factory outputs.

My apologies for so many questions, and if I can provide any more information to anyone before they are able to answer any of them then please ask, and I will do my best by way of a response.

Many thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this.

Cheers Guys

Rob G

This turbo programmer box could be the problem,do you have any more details on how it works,or maybe you could post some pictures of it so that we might be able to figure it out,the other thing is how is this box connected to the vehicle,and does it alter the signals from the ECU.

[wibblywobbly]

Pic of programmer device

Andy

This is a pic of the turbo timer and the other 'box'.

The box has:
A mode button on the far left.
A row of LED's. These are marked 10 20 30 40 50 60 70
A numeric digital display.
Two buttons on the right (Up and Down).

I can select any one of three modes.
Within each mode I can toggle through the 10 20 30 etc lights.
Whilst on each light I can change the readout on the digital display to anything from 0 to 95. In other words I could set the readout to '0' on all of them, or 95 on all of them, or anything in between on any or all of them.

Using the mode switch I can have three different sets of settings.

Whilst driving, or just blipping the throttle, the digital readout will rise and fall as if it was an electronic rev counter, except that the readout is always significantly lower than the readout on the rev counter in the dash.

I have tried all combinations of settings, but the turbo boost gauge stubbornly remains on '0', and there is no difference in performance.



Aaaaarrghhhh!!!



Rob G

[rich]

Rob,

That is an Electronic Boost Controller and something in the installation of it is likely to be the cause of your problems.

They work by modifying the air pressure delivered to the wastegate of the turbo and hence causing it to open at a higher boost pressure than it otherwise would - or not in your case.

When they are installed you have to modify the pressure relief valve on the front passenger side of the intake manifold.

Your boost controller will have at least two connections that need to be plumbed into the waste gate one from the pressure source and one to the waste gate.

Electronic controllers also need a source of manifold pressure to determine what the boost level is.

I have copied this so I can not give you any more advice but it is probably a good idea to trace all of the plumbing for it and disconnect it so that it is standard.

Unless you can get it to work and you want to be able to vary your boost.

Rich.

[stormrider]

The turbo timer is like the units fitted to allow the engine to idle for a pre-set time after the ignition has been turned off.In theory you could turn off,get out , lock the door and walk away leaving the engine running.After the pre-set time,the engine would turn itself off.It allowed the turbo to cool down and not be starved of oil ,as could happen if the engine was stopped immeadiately after stopping the car.The other unit looks like a rev-limiter.Seems a bit odd to be fitted to a diesel though.The first thing to check with your turbo is that it spins freely and it is`nt seized.Take off the tube fastened to the turbo from the air filter and see if it spins easily.If it does ,check the EGR valve isnt stuck open.Thats the valve on the inlet manifold linked to the exhaust manifold by a tube normally about 22mm diameter.Thats if your engine is fitted with one and not a waste-gate as mentioned before.

[wibblywobbly]

The two boxes

Just to avoid confusion:

The box on the left is an Electronic Boost Controller, is allows me to program the amount of boost. This site gives a brief description of what they do:

http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech/2003_4.htm

My problem is that I have no instructions, and haven't a clue about what the settings should be. I have tried all sorts but the boost gauge never moves.

The item on the right is a Turbo timer. This unit works fine, and I have figured out how this operates some while back.

My mission for Saturday is to try and trace where the boost controller is connected. There should theoretically be a solenoid somewhere that operates the wastegate, and if it has jammed open is would explain where my boost is going.

I have also emailed Turbo Technics to see if they can offer any advice (they also seem to supply recon turbos, so I am awaiting prices).

One day this mystery will be solved, in the meantime, if anyone out there can provide any other info, then as Prince Charles would say, 'I am all ears!'

Cheers

Rob G

[gemini]

Just to avoid confusion:

The box on the left is an Electronic Boost Controller, is allows me to program the amount of boost. This site gives a brief description of what they do:

http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech/2003_4.htm

My problem is that I have no instructions, and haven't a clue about what the settings should be. I have tried all sorts but the boost gauge never moves.

The item on the right is a Turbo timer. This unit works fine, and I have figured out how this operates some while back.

My mission for Saturday is to try and trace where the boost controller is connected. There should theoretically be a solenoid somewhere that operates the wastegate, and if it has jammed open is would explain where my boost is going.

I have also emailed Turbo Technics to see if they can offer any advice (they also seem to supply recon turbos, so I am awaiting prices).

One day this mystery will be solved, in the meantime, if anyone out there can provide any other info, then as Prince Charles would say, 'I am all ears!'

Cheers

Rob G

it may be that whats causing the problem, it might not have been fitted correctly, i would remove it

[Guest]

What make is it, can you see anywhere on the unit. You might try a search on the web and see if you can get a manual for it.

Cheers