2.4 Heads Again. Final Question...

[GrahamJayzee]

Hello Folks,

It's Captain Paranoia again...

OK, this here head cracking problem that appears to afflict nearly 20% of 2.4TD Surfs; I had decided the best thing to do was to only consider a car that has recepited work, or a 3litre.

AND THEN...

I talk to a vendor who has owned the car since import in 2001 without problem.

At what point is is possible to assume that the car is OK, or are they ALL going to crack eventually, and the only reason the other 80% haven't experienced it is because they've sold the car, or that the inevitable is in the future rather than the past!!??

Does anyone know how soon (age and miles) after import that the danger time appears to be??

Thanks again everyone

Graham (we're doomed. All doomed...)

[NiftyNev]

Deciding when or if a 2.4 head will crack is as easy as picking the Lotto numbers.

Neville

[Linda]

depends how much you trust the sellers opinion.
You may be lucky and have found one that has never oevrheated and cracked the head, then as long as you never overheat it it should be ok... BUT be aware that often when heads have cracked people will stick Radweld or similar in to keep it going for a few months just to shift it.
You could always ask if he minds you getting a pressure test done, the RAC or AA shd be able to do this for you. If hes not genuine then he will probably refuse.

[GrahamJayzee]

Hello Linda,

Thanks for your (as always) wise words.

One thing you just said made me take notice:

If it hasn't overheated, and I don't overheat it, it should be OK

Are you saying that the cause of the cracking is overheat related? I had kind of got the impression that it was a random failure in most cases. Have I got this wrong?

I think the advice regarding a pressure test is sound. I will make sure I arrange this...

Graham

[dirtydog]

generally speaking its overheating that causes gaskets/heads to go.

[Linda]

Basically its a design fault in the head in that the waterways run too close to the surface (NEW replacement heads are a slightly different design without this failing which is why people always advise fitting a NEW head rather than a recon one) giving poorer than ideal cooling. Obviously this is worse when the car overheats (for some reason like leaky rad etc) and the head will crack.

Generally the heads seem to go within a year or two of people buying them, my personal opinion is that most of these cars have probably overheated and cracked the head some time in the past, and the length of time before you get symptoms directly relates to the extent of the damage done at the time, or how good a bodge job the previous owner does to fix it!
They can be driven with a cracked head without major symtoms for some considerable time. We bought one last Jan with a known cracked head, and drove it many thousand of miles, and to Devils Pit and other offroad sites before the head was really an issue (Not that I recommend this - but we are replacing the engine anyway so dont care about additional damage)

If the guy genuinely hasnt had ANY overheating, pressurisation etc since 2001 then I would guess that you might be lucky. Personally I would still get it pressure checked just to reassure myself.

[Koi]

There are genuine cases many on here where people have had their Surfs for 2, 3 or 4 years without head trouble.
Overheating causes heads to crack, it is thought that the main cause for the heads cracking was a dodgy batch of heads fitted to some 2.4's. This is still open to debate and not conclusive it is the sole problem.
As said someone can say they have had it for 2 years and no problems, then it happens, they chuck in some gunk to hold it together and three months or so down the line after you buy it you have a problem.
One thing needs to be considered, you are buying a motor around 10 years + old with no service history, if it was an escort or similar you would walk away. It may be the head went in Japan and they filled it with gunk and we then get trouble with them a few months down the line.
Go for one with receipts to prove the head has been done or if from a dealer one that covers the head completely. If from a dealer drive it hard, drain some coolant and crack the head, then get the dealer to replace it, I didn't really say that, honest.

[GrahamJayzee]

Koi, you are twisted and devious.

I like that in a person!

[dirtydog]

while were on the topic whats the best way to clean a radiator externally, i do pressure wash but not on full pelt and not directly at it to gice it a chance... still got some mud in and my aircon rad underneath is looking a bit sorry for itself.
@Rusty - ASAP i will have a bash plate mate cos i took mine off the other day and its bent so wont go back on with all the bolts

[laser_jock@work]

You must also consider the possibilty on 2.4L head that has not failed (here in the U.K.) that a new design head may have already been fitted by the previous owner in Japan! Hence sombody who has owned a Surf for 4-5 years without a problem may not realise it's already on it's second head!

I suspect a large number of 2.4's in the U.K. without problems fall into this category. Do please remember that Toyota Japan did some kind of warranty recall (or least replaced under warranty) failed cylinder heads. And no- I think Koi has tried, but the offer doesn't extend to Surf's in the UK.

Anyway- as Koi points out a 2.4L is going to 1993 OR OLDER so you might expect a 12+ year old car to have some problems! They're good but they don't go forvever.

Nevillef

ps any 3.0L could be a lemon too- approach all cars you're considering buying with the same caution.

[GrahamJayzee]

Agreed, old cars have problems.

However, this is a biggy! It's the same as checking the gearbox input gear on a Disco; there could be many problems, but that one is known about and will cost you a G...

Is there anyway to tell if the head is the new or old type?

Graham

[marky]

Agreed, old cars have problems.

However, this is a biggy! It's the same as checking the gearbox input gear on a Disco; there could be many problems, but that one is known about and will cost you a G...

Is there anyway to tell if the head is the new or old type?

Graham

The new heads look identical, Its inside that they are hopefuly different as apparantly the waterways were situated too close to the valve seats.

[Esamed]

I was one of the 80% can I swap?
Mine was cracked in 3 places did block as well. Still waiting for the sweatshirt.

Steve