Thinking of using Veg-oil ?

[bigfoot99]

News From Hrmc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just got this from a helpful bloke in Scotland at HMRC

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On the second point there does appear to be some confusion over what constitutes Biodiesel.

The law describes "Biodiesel" as a diesel quality liquid fuel that is produced
from biomass or waste cooking oil:
· the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight; and
· the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight, or is
nil.
"Bioblend" means any mixture that is produced by mixing:
· Biodiesel; and
· heavy oil that has not been charged with the excise duty on
hydrocarbon oil.
"Bioethanol" means a liquid fuel:
· consisting of ethanol produced from biomass; and
· capable of being used for the same purposes as light oil.
"Bioethanol blend" means any mixture that is produced by mixing:
· bioethanol; and
· hydrocarbon oil not charged with excise duty.

The critical issue is "produced from" and fuel produced from such as SVO or UCO must
meet all the conditions of the fiscal specification before qualifying for the lower rate of duty.

It is up to the producer/user of the product to show Customs that the
product meets the full definition. This can
be done by reference to a test carried out by an independent chemist, or in
the case of smaller producers by advising Customs of
the recipe and method used to manufacture the product. There should be evidence that this is the recipe and method consistently used. The
production of test results are not, on their
own, proof that the product consistently meets the specification. The
producer/user should also furnish evidence that the
biofuel has been made using ingredients that will result in a fuel that
meets the biodiesel specification. In simple terms this
excludes the use of ingredients such as white spirit
(which is a hydrocarbon) in the production process.
Any product that does not meet the Biodiesel specification will be
considered a fuel substitute and will attract the
appropriate duty rate.
The Public Notice No. 179E is being re-printed and I have put your name on the mailing list


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So what do we conclude from that ?????????????

HELP !

[the careful driver]

Yep Peter, that's about the size of it. I cannot see 12lts giving you any cause for concern, no need to cross the fingers too hard

Oh, just noticed your bit about putting it in at the filling station, personally I add it at home before heading to the station, no point in drawing attention to oneself.

Thankyou !

Hmm.... I'm going to give it a go and will report back once underway (only just filled up on regular diesel).

Thankyou for the advice. I actually want to promote the fuels locally, it's all pretty amazing really on plantpower, but I have to go for it myself first.

Will post back once fuelled.

Tq

P

[Morr]

..
A fairly empty tank.
At the petrol station.
Put in the Vegoil, 12lts or less to start on a full tank..
then add the diesel on top and cross my fingers.
...

Yep Peter, that's about the size of it. I cannot see 12lts giving you any cause for concern, no need to cross the fingers too hard
If you're still happy after a few tankfuls, you can begin to increase the dosage, say 5ltrs or so extra in a tank and see how it runs.
Remember as we are heading into colder weather now, you may not want to go to to high a ratio too soon.
Having said all that above, as you have only got your Surf, and assuming it may be under warranty, it may be best to hold off for a few weeks, just in case any teething troubles arise, and the garage objects to your use of an alternative fuel. Also a few more tanks on Dinodiesel will help you appreciate the smoothness veggie can bring all the more

Oh, just noticed your bit about putting it in at the filling station, personally I add it at home before heading to the station, no point in drawing attention to oneself.

[the careful driver]

Have you read the first two posts on this thread? Should answer your question

Unless you have something more specific??

But is this that your bedside manner is a little rough doctor, or is this tough love? Do I just put it in then?

I did take your advice and in-between the disclaimer, the bit about Dr Diesels' peanuts, and the rest, of course it was all written down in white and blue.

I just go for it then?

A fairly empty tank.
At the petrol station.
Put in the Vegoil, 12lts or less to start on a full tank..
then add the diesel on top and cross my fingers.


You know, this is still all very new to me.


Thankyou


Being careful as always

[Morr]

...... ....What should I do? Do I just open the top and pour it in?..

Have you read the first two posts on this thread? Should answer your question

Unless you have something more specific??

[Chillitt]

yes. just take the top off and pour it in. then you will need to post 90p to good old gordon brown.

[the careful driver]

...... SO i chucked in 9 ltrs of SVO ( straight veggie oil) and began to stink up the town


Dear Uncle Vegoil,

What was it like ? .....



I have been driving around for the past two weeks with two litres of Waitrose finest, or, well, cheap version rapeseed oil, sitting in the bottle on the back seat. Or moving around the back seat.

I have been asking various friends to help me with my first time. No one is brave enough. No one will put it in.

I have asked a number of friends if they will do the honours and pour the oil into my tank, but most of them scrunch up their nose and look at me strangely. Put that in there?

What do I actually do? What is it like?

Is it as simple as I have heard, and I just put it straight in? I have spent a long time on the internet.

I do realise that at the moment this is a minority activity, but please help?

What should I do? Do I just open the top and pour it in?

Please advise

[Matt the Cat]

Spot on. What absolute gits they all are

[CaptainBeaky]

It would appear, as so often, that as soon as a good idea appears that benefits people as opposed to the government (ie by reducing the tax take), the government will immediately stamp on the idea until a way can be found to divert the advantage to the government.

The result is the sort of double-think we now see from Customs & Excise:
"You are paying the reduced rate on vegetable oil? No that can't be right, we have always been of the opinion that this allowance was made to compensate [some other party - anyone other than the person asking]."

If pushed on the legalities of the situation, they will merely state that they are, "taking legal advice, and in the meantime you owe us £xxxxx in back duty, from the time you started using vegetable oil."
C&E are exactly like the Inland Revenue in this respect - if you f##k up, you are liable. If they f##k up, you are still liable.

FACT: SVO fulfills the legal definition of biodiesel - the definition is fairly simple, and SVO (and correctly treated WVO) fits it.
C&E's current ultra vires behaviour is just frantic back-pedalling now they have discovered a reduction in tax take, and would appear to be in contravention of the law as currently written.


FlySurfer-Edy - BCBs = Burnt Crunchy Bits...

[FlySurfer - Edy.]

Sorry, we were digressing.

Back to the important questions - what about BCB levels in WVO?

having said that are there any PCB's too ? nah not phenyls...
now if there were feminising phenols that might be something having said that if we used animal phats - there might be something to that !

Sorry Bushfella were digressing seriously now....

As the captain said...back to the heart of the matter....
now that the is becoming an issue, I gather there may be far more illegal useage....shame as for me thats a no no.

[CaptainBeaky]

What are you on about?????????????
I can see you two being banished to the basement!

Sorry, we were digressing.

Back to the important questions - what about BCB levels in WVO?

[BUSHWHACKER]

What are you on about?????????????
I can see you two being banished to the basement!

[FlySurfer - Edy.]

By sitting next something more electro-negative?
Protons (hydrogen ions for anyone else listening in) tend to be stabilised by the fact that they then attach themselves temporarily to anything around with a negative charge. To quote Prof Jones (my organic chem lecturer), [Welsh accent=ON] Oxygen functions are rrrrapidly and rrrrreversibly prrrrrrotonated...[Welsh accent=OFF]
eg H2O + H+ => H3O+
However, I am b#####ed if I can remember what shape the more complex orbitals are supposed to be - s, p, d and f are all I can bring to mind without looking them up

LoL....MO theory - now thats dredging the brain !

Good luck Donk, let us know how you go.

[Donk_UK]

Erm... who cares ,

Veg was the topic not hydro whatsits,

Started digging through the RS catalogues and buying really cheap bits I recon I can do a SVO conversion on my Surf for under a ton All the ones on the web are around 300 -400 squid.

Will get back to you guys when all done!

Send ex103 off to :

HMCE Mineral Oil Relief Centre
Dobson House
Regent Centre
Gosforth
Newcastle Upon Tyne
NE3 3PF

[CaptainBeaky]

Oxidation is loss - how can hydrogen lose its electrons eh ? you'll be telling me its T2G orbital is square next !

By sitting next something more electro-negative?
Protons (hydrogen ions for anyone else listening in) tend to be stabilised by the fact that they then attach themselves temporarily to anything around with a negative charge. To quote Prof Jones (my organic chem lecturer), [Welsh accent=ON] Oxygen functions are rrrrapidly and rrrrreversibly prrrrrrotonated...[Welsh accent=OFF]
eg H2O + H+ => H3O+
However, I am b#####ed if I can remember what shape the more complex orbitals are supposed to be - s, p, d and f are all I can bring to mind without looking them up