Are Thai-Made Hilux Trucks Inferior?

[AnguillaKen]

Hi,

We have owned a Hilux Surf 1999 for 7 years. It gave us 5 great years, but our bad roads has taken its toll in recent years, with frequent need of repairs (especially the suspension). Along with other problems related to age and salt (which takes its own toll), we decided it was time to replace our trusty steed.

Shopping in St. Maarten (a larger island just a few miles south) we found a dealer who had been clearing out his 2014 Hilux trucks (the full 2-cabin variety, not the Surfs). I guess the 2015s were coming in.

They usually sell for $30,000, but was offering this last one at $28,000. He explained that the price was low since the Hiluxes bound for the Caribbean are made in Thailand. (Few Caribbean consumers can afford the higher prices of the Japanese-made versions, he noted.)

I have 2 questions...

1) Is it reasonable to assume that the "big trucks" should be able to withstand our roads better than the Surfs?

2) Are the Thai-made versions just as sturdy? Does Toyota's famous quality-control system extend cross-country or are Thai-made Hiluxes inferior in some way?

Thanks very much in advance for any help and advice! :-)]

All the best,
Ken

[slobodan]

I thought most pick ups were made in Thailand or Malaysia.

[shokenore]

I thought most pick ups were made in Thailand or Malaysia.

Yup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux


Makes for interesting reading.

[AnguillaKen]

So did I, frankly. I thought that they stopped making the Hilux in Japan years ago.

The price, though, did strike me as pretty good, so it "rung true." There are some products that are made for the developing nations that are cheaper, but you usually get what you pay for.

I guess that's what I was wondering here. I accepted his claim without thought (never wise to do at a car dealer ;-) ).

A little research, though, shows that the 7th generation's location of manufacturing does indeed vary according to retail location...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux

The article goes on to say that engines are made in Japan, but not the trucks. It does NOT say where Japanese Hiluxes are made.

I'll do a ilttle more digging. It sounds, though, that trucks bound for the Caribbean are indeed made in Thailand. But (unless Thailand has a particularly low cost of production), it's not a reason for the "low price," it would seem.

This may have just been "a line from our friendly, neighborhood dealer." ;-)

On the other hand, the price seems decent?

All the best,
Ken

[tashtego]

Ken,
Similar situation here. The main Toyota dealer sells the 3.0 D4D pick ups, these are assembled in South Africa and are like the ones I've seen in Europe, very good quality.
The independent dealers import the cheaper Thai ones, normally called Hilux Vigo, and normally, but not always, with the 2.5 commonrail. These are definitely inferior: after a few years the paint starts to fade (while the paint on old surfs here is often pristine), the headlamps go "cloudy" and yellow, the exhaust rusts away...also the interior is quite flimsy and rattles...My personal impression, from the ones I see around here, is of overall cheper material being used.
As for the Surf's suspension, we have the same problem here. The badly potholed and corrugated "roads" we have here chew up the suspension.
In the last couple of years I have spend around £700 on rear shocks and springs, ARB bushes front and rear, steering rack ends, tie rod ends, steering rack bush kit and other smaller bits. I managed to find quality aftermarket parts and also had some Roghtrax stuff shipped. I can't believe the difference this has made. It's like driving a new vehicle altogether. Maybe you could consider doing the same and keep the surf.
Cheers

[AnguillaKen]

Thanks for that Tashtego, This review (good vs bad page)...

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar.../?section=good

... mentions a warning from Toyota itself (bolds are mine), which corroborates what you've noted...

"Toyota warned that independent Thai imports may not have standard ABS, only have drivers airbag on top of the range models, do not have passenger airbags, seatbelts do not have pretensioners, no child locks on rear doors of double cab, no rear centre headrest, softer suspension on double cabs, less anti corrosion protection.

There are some other Thai issues, as well, but that note re anti-corrosion confirms your observation. It is especially important for me, since we live right on the ocean in a particularly high-salt/spray area. It's amazing what salt does to stuff (ex. replace my laptop every 18 months!)

Does anyone know if those after-sales anti-corrosion treatments are of any value?

Regarding the "Vigo" name, does it say "Vigo" anywhere on the pickup (that we would be able to see, so we could be sure of what it is). Does the name itself have any significance (i.e., an officially "lesser" model") or anything?

Also, would that softer suspension be a good thing (absorbing the pothole impacts better?) or a bad thing for us? As you can tell, I don't know much about cars, but we do want something that's going to last.

It's beginning to sound like we might be better off buying a used 2008-2010 from a Japanese dealer (they ship to the Caribbean). Those years would still be the latest generation. But the stuff that matters to us (corrosion) would be sort of like having a "new" truck since they don't face constant salt spray.

But then we're back to the need to order parts from Japan. We looked for "American-side" used Hiluxes in St. Maarten, but no luck.

Or, if anti-corrosion treatments are worthwhile, we'd buy it and treat it.

It's nice living on a tropical island, but these are the butt-pains that you don't see when on vacation! ;-)

Any thoughts on the best direction here? Thanks very much for all the help!

All the best,
Ken

[tashtego]

Hi,
The Thai double cabs we get here have VIGO sticker next to the hilux plastic logo thing above the rear lights. Also a very bright sticker saying either VIGO or COMMONRAIL Turbo, on each side of the loading bay. The wheels (rims) are also different from those of the ordinary hilux double cabs. Altho' the body panels are the same, the VIGO often have "plasticky" bits added to them...
For more info and advice on pickups you could try the pick up forum, hpoc.co.uk .

Hopefully someone will come up with some advice on those rustproofing products, I've never used them since we're landlocked with nine months of very dry weather, so rust here is not a problem.

Since in the last 10 yrs or so Jap imports have hit Africa big time a whole managerie of parts shops have sprouted, so you find most parts for hiluxes, surfs, pajeros etc. Maybe not so in the Caribbean?

I also often have family and friends travelling to and from UK so for small parts I use Roughtrax a lot,just stick them in their suitcases.

Hope you find the right solution.
Cheers

[AnguillaKen]

Hi Tashtego (and anyone else wondering about this topic),

I went to the Toyota dealer yesterday. (Since our island has a grand total population of only 13,000 people, the dealerships are in St. Maarten, a 20-minute boat ride.).

I had done the Net research while my wife had visited various dealerships. We narrowed the hunt down to the Hilux truck -- we simply need that ruggedness.

I haven't been able to find that the Thai-built version is inferior in any fundamental way, aside from what I noted above...

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/showpost....53&postcount=6

Regarding your observation about "VIGO" on the double cabs in Malawi, that may be a "marketing thing" for your region. The more I dug on this topic (Thai-made Hiluxes), the more variations I found. I ended up with an info-overload headache. ;-)

What I can summarize is that the version that we bought (yes, we ended up buying it yesterday)...

1) The Caribbean version (well, at least the one we bought) DOES have the ABS, so that particular Toyota notice (in the above post) really does mean "may" -- something to check in one's region, I guess, along with other variable features.

2) the dealer did agree that the "Thai-made" is more susceptible to corrosion. However, that led to selling us the anti-corrosion application, so there's a little motivation there to confirm. ;-) Still, if Toyota itself notes it, I'll accept that as a potential problem.

As for my question about the usefulness of the anti-corrosion treatments, my wife herself answered my question! She reminded me of our own experience in Canada...

In Montreal, where we get a lot of winter salt on the road, taking the anti-corrosion made a big difference. We took it on the second car that we owned but not the first (same model, which we had bought several years earlier). The difference, after several years of ownership of each, was so big that the dealer wouldn't take the first one as a trade-n due to the rust of the entire underbody being so bad. The latter, though, after the same number of years of exposure, was in excellent shape.

So it's probably a good idea if your car is going to be exposed to salt in a big way. It's why we took it for the Hilux. In Malawi, it certainly sounds like it would be useless for you - our 2 environments could not be more different, Tash!


3) The version in St. Maarten did not have a "VIGO" notice anywhere (ex., just "HILUX" on the back).


4) And regarding your question about parts, yes, there are aftermarket parts dealers for Anguilla. They generally cover the more commonly needed parts, with better coverage in St. Maarten.

The quality seems to be lower than original parts since new suspension parts broke within MONTHS! But the original suspension parts of that 1999 Hilux had all lasted 5 YEARS before they started to go.

Also, some parts are different for "British-side" compared to "American-side" steering. Since St. Maarten only deals with American-side parts, we can get stuck locally.

So for those two reasons, we sometimes had to order from Japan, which added weeks of delay.

So parts availability was a key factor in choosing to buy the "American-side" Hilux in St. Maarten. Oh yes, and we negotiated a good price, which helped clinch over competitive considerations (we liked the 4-door Jeep Wrangler, as a close 2nd).

Although it's easier to drive "British-side" cars in Anguilla, it's not a big deal to "drive American" (it's split about 50-50 here). It's a small island, so most driving is low-speed, small drives.

Before the Surf started to die, we also liked getting off-road, so it will be fun to go back to that, too. These trucks are virtually indestructible -- I really laughed at the Youtube series (those guys did crazy things to that poor truck)...

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...top+gear+hilux



5) Finally, the sales rep said that a 3.0 engine was available, so it would seem that Thai-made versions are not all 2.5 (which some sites claim). He only had the 2.5, but said he could get the 3.0 if we wanted it.

--

What else can I tell you, Tashtego?

The test drive was excellent, lots of power in the 2.5 engine going up steep inclines with a surprising tight turn radius (picture those 180 degree turns up winding mountains - St. Maarten is a very mountainous). Never had to engage the 4WD.

The 3.0 would certainly delivrer way more power than we'd ever need on our flat desert island (very different from our neighbor). The 2.5 is strong enough for easy passes, although we'd be more conservative now that we drive on "the wrong side."

I've read reviews about noisy diesel engines and so forth. Maybe we're just not very picky (or discerning -- we're certainly not car experts!), but the ride was comfortable and plenty quiet for us.

Aside from the anti-corrosion, the only other accessory that we added was the lining for the back of the truck. Surfboards and dogs' toenails and whatever other stuff we'll throw in the back (looking forward to having that space to do that!) would chip and then rust in no time.

--

Oh yes...

The tires were, surprisingly, just regular tires. Disappointing for a truck with its reputation. Knowing our roads, they'll be "baldinos" in a year. We'll replace them then with the bigger, more robust tires that will last us much longer.

And that's about it. We can't wait for it to come in from St. Maarten. We have both always enjoyed driving standard, so that will be fun again.

And most importantly, my wife absolutely loves it. And as they say everywhere in the world, from Malawi to Anguilla...

"Happy wife, happy life." :-)

Thanks very much for your help. I hope this added a little useful into back at you!

All the best,
Ken

P.S. I'll let you know how the anti-corrosion goes in a few years. I've calendared an alarm to remind this thread in 3 years. Um, don't hold your breath waiting! ;-)

[tashtego]

Wow, very impressive bit of research, well done.
Now all you need is a touch of rustproof paint thingy and you are away!
Live happy and prosper my friend.

[AnguillaKen]

Thank you, again. Your help is really appreciated. I'm glad you found the research helpful, too. Here's hoping the anti-corrosion stuff works as well as it did in Montreal! :-)

Good luck to you, Tash!

All the best,
Ken

[joker??]

Now own vigo formerly surfs gen 2 and gen 3 was imported 2005 think invincibles started 2006 in Britain ,very nice truck to drive 3litre auto and nice spec ie leather embossed seats etc ,don't think anyone who drives gen 3 will dislike driving vigo and visa versa