2nd gen lack of centre diff

[shokenore]

Having traction to all four wheels makes a huge difference, as anybody who has ever driven a Subaru or Miitsi evo or similar will tell you. Especially at high speed and/or on mud, snow etc. Much more forgiving than normal 2WD.]

I drove rally cars for a couple of years (a money pit, wouldn't recommend it) and having an AWD vehicle (in those days it was the Audi 4, Delta S4 and few others) often meant the difference between staying on the road or coming off it. No substitute for careful driving, mind you.
I don't think a bigger engine would make a difference, who said that?

[B] Em no not necessarily, there is absolutely no point in having a world turning power if you can not put that power to good use, the vehicle choices that the OP has indicated do not have that smart a traction control.[/B
Yes I have driven road based 4wd and or road based awd so I don't need to be told how good they are or can be at going around corners, my, it was almost as if they were designed to do such a thing.
It is also debatable whether front wheel drive would out perform a similar powered rear wheel drive car in the icy snowy corner and yes I know which one I would get round the corner quicker and safer in.
As you state that you drove rally cars you should be fully aware of the difference and how you can even compare a rally prepped car to a standard car is laughable, for another pointless example my bored and stroked turbo charged with NO2 Kawasaki GPZ would leave most if not all other quivering in the mix of clutch tyre and exhaust smoke but come the twisty bits my NSR would run rings around it.
But then you have probably ridden for a few works teams also so you will know what I am talking about.
I used to do The Kessel Run in under twelve parsecs so there.

You mentioned power as you seem to have a hang up about the mighty 3.0 conquering all before it especially that lowly 2.4.
If you have entered a corner carrying too much speed then you have not been reading the road correctly and no manner of combination of speed or awd or 4wd will make a blind bit of difference so it will matter less if you are in a Saxo or a Audi S8 the only difference being the cleaning and repair bill.

I would suggest that the OP could care less for steering around corners using the throttle and the rev limiter and probably just wants something he can just get in and drive.

[Karma Supra]

The simple fact is, if you are carrying more than enough momentum in a straight line, having all wheels driven will not make you stop, or steer faster.

I think the comment was referring to normal road driving, and road use, as opposed to Scandinavian flicks, 4 wheels drifts, and intelligent traction and yaw control systems

I think that the "average" road situation, for the "average" driver, if you suddenly hit snow, of the grip levels change suddenly, you are less likely to have the back step out, or get massive power under steer if all wheels are driven.

I personally love RWD cars, I loved my old supra that kicked down so brutally hard, one cold night I got the back to step out, accidently, at 70. It was ###### scary and a huge thrill to tame..

I can have just as much fun in my V8 surf in RWD, and that is where it lives, most of the time... (weirdly, even on 33s with all that lift, I think it "feels better" without the front wheels driven). But I'm probably not your "average" driver... not due to skill (I'm not all that...) but due to the fact that I enjoy wrestling a car that quite frankly, wants to kill you.

For other times, when I'm knackered, half asleep, and just want to get home, if I think it might be a bit iffy, I like to know I can stick it in 4wd, and it's less likely to catch me off guard, without a lot more provocation. For that reason, in my eyes, the centre diff is worth it.

If you are silly and have a V8, it helps launches too

[M8WHR]

If you are silly and have a V8, it helps launches too

Sensible people have V8's?

[pasty]

as said already the two scenarios described by the OP would not have been helped by having 4wd engaged.

Mine slips and slides all the time on the muddy A/B roads around here... no problem if you know how to control a car on the edge or over the edge of grip.

[jmc]

I would suggest that the OP could care less for steering around corners using the throttle and the rev limiter and probably just wants something he can just get in and drive.

It's couldn't care less.

In mixed, on-road conditions a two-tonne Surf with RWD and a high centre of gravity is never going to be great. Thankfully when they let go at the back it's usually in a very controlled manner and coming off the throttle is all that's needed for it to straighten out.

I think my perfect Surf would be the 3rd gen AWD running gear and a 2nd gen body on top. With a V8 of course.

Have to agree with Karma Supra though, there's just something so much more fun about driving a vehicle that feels like it may kill you.

On the winter tyres front, I switched from Bridgestone HT to Vredestein Wintracs and the difference in grip in all conditions was night and day. Before swapping I couldn't go near the throttle on wet roundabouts.

[Tony260Z]

Thanks all...

Couldn't agree more - 4wd is no magical solution to poor driving. I've seen enough chelsea tractors buried in hedges or ditches over the years because their owners thought that having a four wheel drive somehow gave them carte blanche to ignore the weather. In fact, I fully expect to see a few more (and no doubt some heavy rwd german saloons too) over the next few months.

Last winter I had to help (of all the dumb things to take out in the snow) a Chrysler 300C that was stuck. The gradient was so slight you could barely see it but he wasn't going anywhere!

The reason for my question was that in 4wd mode the surf was brilliant, and 99% of the time in 2wd it's great too, but I felt I'd like to be able to go into 4wd when the conditions were just a bit iffy.

I'm not kidding myself, I do know that too fast + corner = disaster :-)

[Tony260Z]

And um... I also have a '78 Datsun 260Z with a pretty pokey 2.8 in it, so I've had to apply a bit of opposite lock in my time too

[shokenore]

It's couldn't care less.

In mixed, on-road conditions a two-tonne Surf with RWD and a high centre of gravity is never going to be great. Thankfully when they let go at the back it's usually in a very controlled manner and coming off the throttle is all that's needed for it to straighten out.

I think my perfect Surf would be the 3rd gen AWD running gear and a 2nd gen body on top. With a V8 of course.

Have to agree with Karma Supra though, there's just something so much more fun about driving a vehicle that feels like it may kill you.

On the winter tyres front, I switched from Bridgestone HT to Vredestein Wintracs and the difference in grip in all conditions was night and day. Before swapping I couldn't go near the throttle on wet roundabouts.

Fanks for the lesson in pedantry, although now I'm left confused.
Does the truck weigh two tonnes or two tons?
Oh and I could care less also.

[Tony260Z]

I'm still wandering around auto trader and the like...

Lots more Land Cruisers around than Surfs obviously, but similar sort of mileages and money. I like the 3rd gen ones I'm seeing - quite a big step up in terms of interior comfort and quality plus the more flexible 4x4 system etc (THAT discussion was like sticking my head on a block), but I think the 2nd gen is the more handsome looking from the outside. Hmmm... can't have both unfortunately.

Any pros and cons one versus the other?

[shokenore]

Plenty of good and bad points with both that you have suggested.

Day to day use the 3rd gen has the tailgate as opposed to the drop down, more room inside, some come with the all important centre diff, I think that has been covered already.
More choice in engines.
You don't say what the primary use will be and what sort of budget?
Daily driver or off/soft roading?

And just to put some interest in, what about a 4th gen?

[BUSHWHACKER]

I'm still wandering around auto trader and the like...

Lots more Land Cruisers around than Surfs obviously, but similar sort of mileages and money. I like the 3rd gen ones I'm seeing - quite a big step up in terms of interior comfort and quality plus the more flexible 4x4 system etc (THAT discussion was like sticking my head on a block), but I think the 2nd gen is the more handsome looking from the outside. Hmmm... can't have both unfortunately.

Any pros and cons one versus the other?

Wanna buy mine for 6K?
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/showthrea...ight=navigator

[slobodan]

[shokenore]

Wanna buy mine for 6K?
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/showthrea...ight=navigator

I quite fancy this L/C

[captain_chaos]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the centre diff part of the transfer case? Would it not be possible to swap in a transfer case from a 3rd gen, thus giving an open diff and constant 4wd? Or are the output splines from the gearbox different?
Also wouldn't the downside of a centre open diff be that if you were to get either front or rear wheels stuck, then most of your engine power would be sent to the free end? At least with a fixed centre diff you know both front and rear will get power.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the centre diff part of the transfer case? Would it not be possible to swap in a transfer case from a 3rd gen, thus giving an open diff and constant 4wd? Or are the output splines from the gearbox different?

The front prop is on the other side in the 3rd gen.