Yet another blimen idler arm gone! Any ideas?

[Kiwisurfing]

Hello lads, time to pick your brains again

This fine example of an idler arm in the attached photo (note the upwards bend in it that causes it to rub on the chassis) is of my lovely wee smurf, and the idler arm itself is only 2 weeks old after the last one packed it in. I put this down to it being a defect and just replaced it again but as my luck would have it its gone again, only lasting 3 weeks this time

Now before you say im driving it like I stole it, im not, I have a rear air locker in it now so it happily idles over everything slowly and smoothly so what on earth is going on here for me to stuff so many so quick?

It has a 2 inch suspension lift (more like 1.5 at the moment as its sagged a bit in the last year) 2 inch body lift that shouldnt pay a part in this problem and 33 inch tyres but there are more of you with same size with no problems.

I am going to take this we sucker into work tomorrow and weld a brace onto it and see how I get on seeing as its only 2 weeks old and just bent so no other problems with it.
But I need to find the cause first as if this is strengthened its only going to bugger the next weakest link in the steering untill I find the cause.






Long story short, has anyone else had this problem and knows whats going on as im stumped



PS: attached photos of its last trip as you can see its nothing major or extreme on this trip but this is the trip that bent it. Just about 50 river crossings over 3 hours. Awesome track but a snorkel is a must as it pops over the bonnet a few times


PPS: Intercooler is now fitted just 2 days before these photos, damn what a difference its like a rocket now and flys up hills, 2.8 turbo intercooled goodness

[TonyN]

I've never bent one, in all the years of running 33's and 35's on my old Surf.

Are you sure its or the link is not getting smacked on a rock or something? Seeing as its bent upwards like that.

First impressions are any stress thorugh just steering will twist it, not bend it like that. But if you have to much lift on the front it could get pushed and pulled strangly when steering, as the TRE's do hang down lots, rather than being parallel to the tie rod, so if the wheel gets an impact it could push the idler up rather than over.

I'd try a different brand first.

[Kiwisurfing]

Cheers Tony, was hoping you would reply as your the most clued up person on surfs I know.

there is a bash plate protecting the front and another underneath protecting most of the steering, and the idler arm is directly behind the bullbars main bar so I would assume nothing has hit it, although remotly possible but its only done light duty off roading since the last one was replaced so improbable.

Rather minimal lift on the front at the moment, ild guess its settled at about 1.5 inches so not too much stress there, I also personally adjusted the steering stops to match the arms stops as it wasnt done last wheel alignment so its jot that stressing it either.

Tis a hard one to pinpoint sorry and especially as you cant look at the truck so.I do appreciate your help and opinion.

If my strengthened idler arm fails I will try a genuine Toyota arm, I did use aftermarket arms but they are a reputable manufacture over here



Any other ideas or should I just suck it up and drop it off at Toyota for the day for them to diagnose it, cheers again

[Albannach]

Cheers Tony, was hoping you would reply as your the most clued up person on surfs I know.

Ah well, that's you just alienated the rest of us. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your reply

[Sancho]

I know that no-one but Tony's allowed to answer, but the arm itself doesn't look bent to me. It looks more like the actual components of the idler (i.e. the bearings, bushes etc have failed).

It's either badly manufactured or you fitted it wrong (somehow).

[BUSHWHACKER]

Cheers Tony, was hoping you would reply as your the most clued up person on surfs I know.

Maybe you should just use the private message function in future then!

[TonyN]

Oh com'on, how on earth is that making anyone else feel butthurt?

Wasn't even a @TonyN thread title.....

If any one has anything to add post it up, I don't see the problem? No one gets a dented ego at posts for Vince about Lexurfs, or Wolfracer John about building, GWH for poo, etc....

He's only trying to friendly and who else on here works almost exclusively on Surf of all types on a daily basis, and has built, used and owned many trucks with big tyres and lifts, why shouldn't he hope I replied to a very tricky unusual of all the members on here who could help?

I wouldn't mind but I didn't even have an answer for him!!

:rant off:

[Sancho]

Well, I'm just shit-stirring.....

[TonyN]

Well, I'm just shit-stirring.....

Cos you're helpful like that....

[Albannach]

I'm shit stirring too, to a point. The OP asked an open question, then told the rest of us to #### off as he only really wanted an answer from Tony.

Anyway, his problem looks like the suspension lift puting extra strain on a crap quality, aftermarket, part (exaggerated TRE angles pushing up on the arm, rather than along it). It's the shaft that bent, not the arm.

I'm sure there's a bit on 4crawler about the different shaft diameters nd how much strength is lost to a small decrease in diameter.

[TonyN]

Anyway, his problem looks like the suspension lift puting extra strain on a crap quality, aftermarket, part (exaggerated TRE angles pushing up on the arm, rather than along it). It's the shaft that bent, not the arm.

You're right, preface-lift trucks have a smaller pivot shaft, thinking back my only preface-lift Surf had the newer type idler because that was all I had when replacing it for the MOT once.

I'd make sure the people he's buying it from are getting him a post 92' truck, rather than the earlier type, and its decent quality.

You're also right that beefing up the arm won't help.

[wishbone]

Can't see why people are saying it isn't bent ?

Looks like a banana compared to a new one from R'trax....

[Kiwisurfing]

Can't see why people are saying it isn't bent ?

Looks like a banana compared to a new one from R'trax....

cheers that photo shows the damage perfectly, not to obvious untill its next to a new one.



And sorry guys didnt mean to sound like I only wanted Tonys opinion, just meant Im glad he has helped as he probably sees more surfs than anyone else so may have more of an idea as no mechanic over here has a clue whats going on with it.

Very interested to hear about the post 1992 upgrade, will go and find one of them and try I think.


cheers again guys and sorry to sound like im alienating tue rest of you

[Sancho]

Can't see why people are saying it isn't bent ?

Looks like a banana compared to a new one from R'trax....

Different profile. Look how, erm, shafted the shaft is. The arm may be a little bit bent, but that's probably from bouncing against the body of the idler once the shaft / bearing / bushing collapsed.

[Kiwisurfing]

Ok looks like I finally figured out what im doing wrong (I think)
Had a nosey under the truck after taking the bash plate off, I have believe it or not too much articulation! (for an independant anyway)

The angle that my steering arms are running at the moment is moderate but the way I have set everything up (no sway bar, raised but soft suspension, soft shocks) is allowing it to hit the bump stops too easily, on a stock truck this would be fine but as the camber is set to the lift it dosent leave much room for the steering system to be able to move up and out of the way, and so its finding rooms by taking out the idler arms

I might take a pic and post it later for someone elses opinion but after crawling under the truck and having someone jump on the bars I can see where its running out of room, seems impossible but I think ive done it.



Its a shame really I dont want to have to loose my articulation, its independent but it can flex like a b@$terd, more than some solid hiluxs.

Anyone ever heard of dropping the steering box on an independent? its common on solids for similar problems but not normally a problem independents suffer I thought?