Waterless coolant

[markjd]

Hey all just watched good old wheeler dealer with the TR6 and they used waterless coolant which is suppose to help prevent overheating??
Anyone ever used this, what's people's thought on it??
Might try this myself as I'm still running the original head

Thoughts please

On the subject lol

[Wolfracer]

Google returned this thread from my old friends on the PH/Monaro forum.

http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/t...erless+Coolant
Sounds expensive.
But the benefits are it doesn't freeze, boil, or gain pressure - you can take the cap straight off after a run!
Necessary?

Nah....

[stormforce]

we were discussing this over on the l200 forum last week

[markjd]

we were discussing this over on the l200 forum last week

Was it a secret discussion lol.

[markjd]

Google returned this thread from my old friends on the PH/Monaro forum.

http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/t...erless+Coolant
Sounds expensive.
But the benefits are it doesn't freeze, boil, or gain pressure - you can take the cap straight off after a run!
Necessary?

Nah....

I thought the fact that it is better at extracting heat from the engine it would be a benefit to the surf with the overheating/head problems surely?

[Wolfracer]

Without dampening your fire, I would argue that if you still have the original (and flawed design) head, then you are lucky.
However,
It is generally accepted that the cracks appear over time... now, at what stage are yours?
I don't think the heads crack in "one go" after overheating. It is a longer process. therefore, I would argue that either way most original heads will fail at some stage. It's just when. No magic snake oil will stop it.
Like I've said before, if you intend to keep your surf for a period of time, put a few coppers away every week "just in case" you need a new head.... if you don't, great. If you do, the pain is eased.

[Rob5464]

This came up on 206 info last night too. Thought I would repost on someone elses behalf as he is a chemist and knows what he is talking about.

so you are putting more strain on the pump, the coolant will be a lot hotter than normal.

i can't see a single benefit of this move. \

plus i should add this as well, normal concentrated coolant you got from halford or comma are essentially the same stuff.

on the other side, racing car run neat water (with rust inhibitor) as the coolant, no glycol or what so ever because that give the max. cooling effect.

i am a chemist. i deal with these stuff everyday. Unless there is numbers and figure with proper testing to back up their claims otherwise i will treat them as snake oil. And to be fair, even there is proper testing it also depends on many thing to arrive at the conclusion so it all depends on how much damn i have got left. (Have seen far too many fake testing, fake report or what so every)

pure water will cause corrosion for sure if there is ferrous metal.

the reason for using 50/50 mixture is mainly because when winter comes you engine won't break into piece (water freeze, expand and crack the engine). I am pretty sure someone in here crack his engine because he forget to put anti-freeze in there.

water wetter is just glycol ether, surfactant and rust inhibitor. Even redline admit it did very little improvement (less than few% difference) over neat water. and it doesn't have anti-freeze function.

putting anti-freeze in water will decrease the cooling effectiveness for sure; see below:

Water 1.000 0.60 1.000 539
Glycol 1.114 0.25 0.573 226
50/50 1.059 0.41 0.836 374

2nd column is density; 3rd column is thermal conductivity; 4th is heat capacity; 5th is heat of vaporization.

you want the coolant has lower density (lighter per volume), high thermal conductivity (take off heat quicker), high heat capacity (absorb more heat energy from the engine without raising too much temperature) and high heat of vaporization (need a lot of energy to boil)

[TonyN]

I think (for whats its worth) that its boiling temp is immaterial, if your motor runs hot it'll fawk it up anyway, whats the point of having a 180deg boiling point? A 2.4 head will be a big heavy jigsaw puzzle by then.

The boiling point of normal coolant mix is far hotter than a normally running motor will ever see, let alone an original 2.4 head.

Thier website is use mix of bullshit and assuming we're all stupid, and is annoying as hell.

It won't make your motor run any cooler, if its does that also pointless as the engine runs best at its designed operating temp.

You're much better off making sure you're cooling system is up to snuff, instead of covering up the cracks (sic! ) with magical coolant.

[Andy Pandy]

Snake oil

Iwas always under the impression when i was racing that pure water was used and not antifreeze because additives are slippery if they escape from motor,not because they alter cooling.

[NiftyNev]

I think (for whats its worth) that its boiling temp is immaterial, if your motor runs hot it'll fawk it up anyway, whats the point of having a 180deg boiling point? A 2.4 head will be a big heavy jigsaw puzzle by then.

The boiling point of normal coolant mix is far hotter than a normally running motor will ever see, let alone an original 2.4 head.

Thier website is use mix of bullshit and assuming we're all stupid, and is annoying as hell.

It won't make your motor run any cooler, if its does that also pointless as the engine runs best at its designed operating temp.

You're much better off making sure you're cooling system is up to snuff, instead of covering up the cracks (sic! ) with magical coolant.

Totally agree.

Nev

[Ambobeer]

Iwas always under the impression when i was racing that pure water was used and not antifreeze because additives are slippery if they escape from motor,not because they alter cooling.

Think some of the F1 stock car boys run pure antifreeze as they claim it cools more efficiently. If you spend £30K on an engine you aren't going to leave cooling to chance.

[lord_flashart]

the engine runs best at its designed operating temp.

So can you over cool an engine?

I just had my head replaced and was told that if I wanted to keep it cooler I should drill holes in my thermostat so some coolant is always running which *should* give a smoother increase and decrease in heat and reduce cracking thorugh sharp temperature changes.

Is it nonsense?

[slobodan]

When I had my head replaced the doctor told me not to look behind me quickly in case it fell off.

[TonyN]

So can you over cool an engine?

I just had my head replaced and was told that if I wanted to keep it cooler I should drill holes in my thermostat so some coolant is always running which *should* give a smoother increase and decrease in heat and reduce cracking thorugh sharp temperature changes.

Is it nonsense?

Oh dear.....

Yup. It's pretty bad advise, and completely backwards! You can definatly over cool an engine, especially an engine where the ECU moniters coolant temps and alters fueling depending on coolant temps.

Its too vauge, and misleading, you can't just drill holes randomly in the stat and it'll cure any overheating issue. You need to know far more about how motors work before messing around like that.

You need to have a properly working viscous fan, and a fully functioning rad, then the engine can control temps properly. The main job of the viscous fan is to control sudden rises in temps, and keep the temp as stable as possible, as its steplessly drivers harder or softer in relation to rad temps to keep temps stable under different loads on the motor. This is also the main argument agaist electric fans on these motors, which have a set on and off point, so temp fluctuate up and down more.

Drilling holes the stat will exactly do the same, at idle or low speed the motor will be running much cooler than stock, then when you give it some stick it will heat up quickly, instead of almost nearly being at that temp anyway.

Also by flowing to much coolant through the stat you run the risk of it passing to quickly through the rad and not getting cooled properly.

There is so much more to it that just this, that is just the start, it really is poor advise to just tell someone to 'drill a couple of holes' in the stat!

On top of this you have a truck with far larger tyres than stock, so is always working harder than designed, as well as extra weight from roof racks, tools, gear, etc.... the actual cooling capacity of the rad is what needs improving, either with a bigger fan (see above argument on fans though) the best thing you can do is get someone to properly workout how much more cooling you need to cope and build a rad to suit and can cope with the extra demands on the cooling system now the truck is operating far outside its desinged specs. But then that involves spending money...

[TonyN]

When I had my head replaced the doctor told me not to look behind me quickly in case it fell off.

I've missed you....