It's been a while - and we have new blood...

[Koi]

states conveyor belt computer controlled so always matches speed of plane so in theory, static.
You run on a treadmill at 20 mph the tread mill goes the other way at 20mph, do you feel the wind/air blowing in your face, no, why beacuse you aint moving, if you was you would run off the treadmill out the gym and down the road.
No movement no lift, no take off.

[BUSHWHACKER]

states conveyor belt computer controlled so always matches speed of plane so in theory, static.
You run on a treadmill at 20 mph the tread mill goes the other way at 20mph, do you feel the wind/air blowing in your face, no, why beacuse you aint moving, if you was you would run off the treadmill out the gym and down the road.
No movement no lift, no take off.

Exactly.
Do know why it's so difficult for everyone else to work that out.

[schrodingers-cat]

If you had a really big fan that was blowing towards the plane then i`d imagine it would take off without actually moving forwards providing that the airflow was sufficient, surely the speed of the plane is irrelevant, its the speed of the air over the wings that causes lift

[GBV8]

If you had a really big fan that was blowing towards the plane then i`d imagine it would take off without actually moving forwards providing that the airflow was sufficient, surely the speed of the plane is irrelevant, its the speed of the air over the wings that causes lift

It's the difference in pressure above & below the wing that causes lift.

I agree with Vultch, Bushwhacker & Koi on this one. I didn't want to get involved but I can't resist it no longer.

[IanB2]

states conveyor belt computer controlled so always matches speed of plane so in theory, static.
You run on a treadmill at 20 mph the tread mill goes the other way at 20mph, do you feel the wind/air blowing in your face, no, why beacuse you aint moving, if you was you would run off the treadmill out the gym and down the road.
No movement no lift, no take off.

Get back on your treadmill with some rollerblades, and crank the belt up to max speed, are you still able to pull yourself to the front of the belt by the handles on the treadmill? Weird huh?

The wheels on the plane do not dictate the speed of the plane, the conveyor belt is physically unable to overcome the thrust of the plane's engines, the plane is going to fly, every time. The speed of the conveyor belt can't stop the plane from moving forward, doesn't matter how fast it goes.

[flounderbout]

states conveyor belt computer controlled so always matches speed of plane so in theory, static.
You run on a treadmill at 20 mph the tread mill goes the other way at 20mph, do you feel the wind/air blowing in your face, no, why beacuse you aint moving, if you was you would run off the treadmill out the gym and down the road.
No movement no lift, no take off.

Yes but the point is the way you get forward propulsion if you are running is through your feet. If you were driving a car on the treadmill then the same. But we are talking about an aircraft. No aircraft that I know of are driven by their wheels...
They get propulsion from the air (whether by jet/props, whatever). The air relative to the engine is exactly the same whether the aircraft is on a stationary runway, or on a moving treadmill. Hence the amount of propulsion you get is the same is if you were on a stationary runway. Hence the aircraft moves forward as it would on a stationary runway.

[flounderbout]

Get back on your treadmill with some rollerblades, and crank the belt up to max speed, are you still able to pull yourself to the front of the belt by the handles on the treadmill? Weird huh?

The wheels on the plane do not dictate the speed of the plane, the conveyor belt is physically unable to overcome the thrust of the plane's engines, the plane is going to fly, every time. The speed of the conveyor belt can't stop the plane from moving forward, doesn't matter how fast it goes.

Or this. The rollerblade analogy is the same as the aircraft in the "teaser", provided the means of propulsion is not the surface of the treadmill, but independent of it (i.e. a rope attached to the wall or the treadmill handles). If you are pushing off the moving "roadway" then you will stay stationary, like the car on a conveyor belt.

[Wolfracer]

If anything the lack of friction between the tyres and runway comparative to forward motion will allow the plane to take off quicker...

[flounderbout]

If anything the lack of friction between the tyres and runway comparative to forward motion will allow the plane to take off quicker...

No the only relevant friction is the friction in the wheel bearings. Energy lost due to friction in the bearings will be higher due to the wheels spinning twice as fast as on a runway. But that won't be a limiting factor.

[GBV8]

If the conveyor belt was moving forwards with the aircraft would it achieve lift off sooner?

[IanB2]

If the conveyor belt was moving forwards with the aircraft would it achieve lift off sooner?

Only sooner to the extent that the friction in the wheel bearings is holding it back in the original scenario (negligible).

[yoshie]

states conveyor belt computer controlled so always matches speed of plane so in theory, static.
You run on a treadmill at 20 mph the tread mill goes the other way at 20mph, do you feel the wind/air blowing in your face, no, why beacuse you aint moving, if you was you would run off the treadmill out the gym and down the road.
No movement no lift, no take off.

You fail to grasp that plane engines don't drive the wheels, they are irrelevant outwith their ability to hold the plane upright. The belt can run as fast as it likes as soon as you apply thrust the plane moves.

Now that's me done, post 29 and now 57, two more than I to wanted make{Andy you're a cock} but you knew that.

[gwh200]

I'd be worried if he got reasonable.

[Kwakka666]

Nothing on this thread that DOESN'T say it's a Harrier...

will take off

[BUSHWHACKER]

It's the mention of wheels that caused this thread to collapse (or is that prolapse?) the last time.