So The Surf Is Crap?

[silvtr1000]

Hi,

Does this article imply that the Surf's 4WD system is crap? Should I have bought a Discovery?

There does seem to be some logic in some of the author's comments regarding transmission wind-up, suspension characteristics, etc...

I guess I'll rarely test the difference, so for me it's probably irelevant. The Surf looks great though ...

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/versus.shtml

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/buying4wdawd.shtml

Mark

[s2-wolf]

Should I have bought a Discovery?


Mark

Definitely NOT, but you should have bought a 3rd Gen Surf!!!!!!

[Guest]

Hi,

Does this article imply that the Surf's 4WD system is crap? Should I have bought a Discovery?

There does seem to be some logic in some of the author's comments regarding transmission wind-up, suspension characteristics, etc...

I guess I'll rarely test the difference, so for me it's probably irelevant. The Surf looks great though ...

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/versus.shtml

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/buying4wdawd.shtml

Mark

Depends if you want to use 4wd on the road, if so then you need a full time 4wd system. However for the benefits of 4wd on the road as per increased handling you would be better going for a saloon or estate car with 4wd than a Rangerover which has pretty dire handling on the limit anyway.

The Surf, early Landcruisers, Jeep Wranglers, Landrovers, Nissan Patrols, early Shoguns, Troopers etc, all used a part time 4wd system. They were designed as serious off road devices and not for on road use of 4wd. You don't generally need 4wd on the road in the dry or wet, only in the snow and you can use part time 4wd systems in those conditions.

I guess it depends on what you want, the rugged simplicity of part time 4wd or the added complexity of full time 4wd.

I bet you the same people who did this would have shouted about the benefits of part time 4wd systems if that was all that was fitted to LR products and would of slagged off the Japanese SUVs like the later Landcruisers that have full time systems.

You pays your money and takes your choice. I've never yet used my 4wd on road except to put it in and out occasionally to keep it working. I've had my Surf 2 years and driven it in all kinds of conditions.

Cheers

[skipkoo]

nahhhh you only want a Disco for the schoolrun and some occasional shopping in Ken's backyard.

[whitespider]

UUUUUMMM!! Something to be said for the 3.9 V8, superb pulling tool and outclasses most competition, and the design of the defender has proved itself worldwide.
Land Rovers are good machines off road, had years driving them with the military.
Diff lock is very, very handy. Try serious towing in a V8 Auto in bad road conditions.
Credit where its due and all that.

[Smurf]

I think there must be some confusion in this article between performance sport 4wd cars and off roaders. I think most people who drive hard would much prefer oversteer, i know i do!!!!A surf wont suffer the camber problems described due to it having double wishbone suspension. dont know about the rest of you but i am quite impressed with the way the surf handles at speed.
What this article is basically saying is that rear wheel drive gives poor handling,so why are most seriously fast cars and luxury cars still rear wheel drive??? Aston martin, zonda, TVR, BMW, Mercs, Jags,Bentley, Viper etc....
I rest my case

[TonyN]

That whole artical is a joke, written by someone who is totally bias to one idea, therefore anything different must be wrong.

What a waste of webspace.

[keef]

I've not had chance to abuse my surf off road yet but i've driven Defenders on and off road for many years and will state that they are very sure footed and inspire confidence in all conditions.Dont slag them off, they do what they were designed to do, as does the Surf. There is no right or wrong only difference or preference.My Trooper has a similar drive train to the surf;I.E road biased.It handles like a pig on the road by comparison to the Defender but is thoroughly capable in the muck.Laying the power down through all four wheels is inherently safer as it gives even torque and traction.
Enjoy what you've got and dont worry about technical matters.

[Fish]

Hi,

Does this article imply that the Surf's 4WD system is crap? Should I have bought a Discovery?

There does seem to be some logic in some of the author's comments regarding transmission wind-up, suspension characteristics, etc...

I guess I'll rarely test the difference, so for me it's probably irelevant. The Surf looks great though ...

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/versus.shtml

http://www.difflock.com/offroad/buying4wdawd.shtml

Mark

I own and drive hard, a 3rd gen Surf.
My significant other owns a discovery.

As anyone who has ever seen me out on any meet will testify, I will have a go at most obsticles.
Off road I have gone where trick lannys wont go and up slopes at angles the disco wouldnt cope with and still come back for more.

I drive her disco on the motorway and the surf is far more stable, responsive and controlable. A surf at 90 is cruising comfortably, a disco is no where near as stable when its at 75.

Take it from the horses mouth, if you want a pose and economy get a discovery, if you want ability on and off road get a 3rd gen surf.


Fish

[Morr]

That whole artical is a joke, written by someone who is totally bias to one idea, therefore anything different must be wrong.

What a waste of webspace.

Perfectly summarised Tony

[Guest]

UUUUUMMM!! Something to be said for the 3.9 V8, superb pulling tool and outclasses most competition, and the design of the defender has proved itself worldwide.
Land Rovers are good machines off road, had years driving them with the military.
Diff lock is very, very handy. Try serious towing in a V8 Auto in bad road conditions.
Credit where its due and all that.

Yeah I don't think anyone would actually say that a Landrover is not a good tool - build quality can be a bit suspect though. Also the Landrover was always a part time 4wd unit and no one ever said that was wrong. The Rangey and the Disco were always full time but then pre-active suspension I would suggest that their handling limited what they were good for on road much more than a part time 4wd system limits the surf/trooper/ etc etc.

Yes credit where credit is due, but also bias from a respected 4wd site is a bit ridiculous as a considerable number of off roaders reading the site will be drivers of part time 4wd motors.

I'd still say that part time 4wd's simplicity far outweighs the disadvantages of not being able to use it on the road - where you shouldn't really need it anyway (even towing heavy objects).

Cheers

[silvtr1000]

Hi All,

I did have a 1992 Disco for a year, which I loved, but I was originally hankering after a Surf. Now that I've got a Surf, I do prefer it - it has much less roll in bends, is more comfy (the Disco put both front passengers too close to the doors, with loads of space in the middle - silly), and is better looking. I remember the Disco being a little faster, but more noisy.

I think that website is generally biased towards Landy's anyway, and obviously that article is the author's own view - I don't know if Difflock share his opinions - if what he's written was empirically true, there'd be no sales of anything but Land Rovers.

Keef, do you mean that a Surf/Trooper handles WORSE than a Defender on the road? If that's what you mean, I'd have to say that from all I've heard and read, it's the Defender that handles like a pig, not the others. I've never driven a Defender on road, so can't personally comment, but I know folk who have and weren't impressed.

All in all, for what I want the car for, I prefer my Surf to all the other manufacturers offerings in my price range. And even if I had more money, I'd still have bought a gen2 Surf, but maybe a 94/95 3.0 SSR-G manual.

Mark

[keef]

The Trooper is an SWB and handles appalingly on the road but given even damp conditions I can kick the arse end out without too much effort on the trooper and the Surf whereas the defender sticks to the road in all conditions.There are many factors that influence handling but traction is vastly improved having all 4 wheels under power.I would say that the surf "handles" in a far more civilised manner than the Defender/ trooper and having driven all 3 trucks I bought a 1992 2.4 ssr x 6 weeks ago.Says it all!
Cheers.
Keef

[marky]

The SURF compares to a car on the road, smooth & responsive in wet conditions. DEFENDER is like driving an old van

[keef]

I ain't gonna argue with the old van analogy and the noise level allow me to avoid marital conversation! Every cloud etc...
Keef