@ all our london and birmingham members

[dieselboy]

Constant sirens and choppers last night. Vigilante time?

[biosurf]

Yes the current youth are out of work/frustrated etc etc etc. But I don't really think that's the point. It reminds me in a way of a friend I had at school who would always pull wing mirrors off a car or two if he was out at night. I coulndt make sense of it but I think it was just a teenager who was frustrated at being a teenager and wanting to exert some kind of power/control over his surroundings. The riots seem to be similar just on a larger scale, just a load of little shits smashing things up because they can.

There's certainly not and ideology or much reason attached which to my mind is proved by three things.

In Tottenham they torched the post office. Presumably the place many of them collect their benefits.

They've broken into at least 2 branches of Ladbrokes which even if they had much worth stealing it's presumably in something more challenging to break than a window which itself seemed to foil them for quite some time. Unless im missing something and there's real street cred in doing some tiny graffitti with dem bare small pencils blud.

Also in Tottenham they looted Lidl.
Yes, Lidl.


It's just little shits being little shits because they've seen that they can get away with it.

[J i m s t e r]

People getting upset because one of their criminal lifestyle role models was shot (pillars of the community often have shooters in socks?) and their handouts from us are not letting them live like Beckham.

They chose not to take advantage of the free education they have been offered because they are too stupid or lazy to seek employment so don't require the credentials to gain it.

I am from a sh*t council estate in a sh*t town and the answer is to move. The people don't want to change.

[Surf01]

Yes the current youth are out of work/frustrated etc etc etc. But I don't really think that's the point.

There has always been plenty of work available in London especially after it got awarded the Olympics however as the locals did not want to work they had to bring in East Europeans and people from other nations to help complete the project.
I guess they have figured out it is cheaper to live on benefits and watch programs on the new 42" Tv while cooking their food on the new cooker with food from the new fridge all complimenst of Currys. Afterwards they use their new computer obtained compliments of PC World and log onto social networking sites to instigate further rioting and mayhem!

[Apache]

I'm sure everyone has a sob story.

I grew up on a council estate in Huyton on the outskirts of Liverpool. It was rough and shit too. I was bored as a kid but never even thought about torching cars and smashing shop windows. I knew it was wrong and knew my mum would batter me if I did!

My dad worked his way up from being a roofer to being a director of a glazing firm and we moved away. Presumably those rioters would want to smash up my dads business because 'he had more than them'.

I just saw some footage of looters - with headset mics and radios. Thats not heat of the moment, thats organised crime taking advantage of the chaos that the dickheads were causing. Why were the police not using water cannon? Rubber bullets etc? Oh yeah, infringement of the rioters rights?

I keep on about this, but so many people have lost their moral compass. They fully understand what they are doing is wrong, they just dont care.

[Tallyman]

Forget the rubber bullets. Use real ones.

[Apache]

I just saw a clip on BBC news channel of a bunch of looters 'helping' an injured lad up onto his feet, and then one of them stealing from his rucksack and swaggering of doing the 'gangsta' type hand signals!

I felt so disgusted I felt sick. That behaviour makes me think things I'd rather not think. I think I would have enjoyed smashing that guys face to a pulp, and I don't WANT to feel like that. They disgust me. They're sub-human.

[Surf01]

Without appearing to be racist, most of the footage I have seen which is probably very little in the scheme of things seems to indicate one particulair ethnic group causing all the trouble. Am I wrong or is it across all groups or is the cameraman is overly focussing on that ethnic one group?

[Sancho]

For what it's worth, sitting in the middle of it all:

The Tottenham protest was normal stuff. A guy got shot by the police (no details on why, so don't presume). The IPCC came out but they and the police didn't give the family details on the investigation fast enough. A few people went down to the police station to protest. It was all pre-arranged and fine. At some point, someone kicked off and the local kids all decided to get involved. Along came a small riot, which was dealt with fairly well, then people wondered over to the retail park and started nicking stuff.

Once people had found they could get stuff for free with no apparent consequences, it got popular, and neighbouring shopping areas got hit. It looks like last night, some areas in the south were popular too.

As Biosurf says, at the moment, it's about kids realising they can do whatever they like and get away with it. I've seen a few chinooks around so the army might be getting prepared (I very much doubt we'll see them though)

Both Cameron and Boris are back now and, whilst I don't think they have any special powers, they will both be pretty fired up because they've had to cancel their holidays and been made to look stupid. I expect some fairly brutal arse kicking if it starts again tonight.

As for any racial undertones here; nonsense. The mobs have been a great example of multiculturalism and there have been three examples near me of the dreaded ethnic minorities being the best hope we have: Turkish shopkeepers defended much of Hackney last night, the Bengali community in Whitechapel kept things quiet there and, in my neighbourhood, the orthodox Jews were out all night patrolling the streets. We, the English, could learn a great deal from our minority communities.

[Apache]

<Once people had found they could get stuff for free with no apparent consequences,>

<it's about kids realising they can do whatever they like and get away with it.>

<I expect some fairly brutal arse kicking if it starts again tonight.>

I'm guessing if that happens there may not be many tears shed or much in the way of sympathy for them?

Oddly enough I've just seen a couple of Chinooks heading SW from Hereford direction. I know the chaps over Hereford use them, so I wonder if they've called in the specialists for a bit of 'on the ground' recon / intelligence?

[Sancho]

Without appearing to be racist, most of the footage I have seen which is probably very little in the scheme of things seems to indicate one particulair ethnic group causing all the trouble. Am I wrong or is it across all groups or is the cameraman is overly focussing on that ethnic one group?

Apart from the mystery of Ealing, most of the trouble has been in the poorest areas and a lot of black people live in those areas. Bear in mind, though, that you can't actually see most people anyway because of hoods and scarves. That may be what black people dress like in your area; in central London, all poor kids dress like that.

As I said in my other post, the ethnic minority areas tend to have been the quiet ones so far. The kids that are causing trouble are the well-integrated English ones.

[Sancho]

I'm guessing if that happens there may not be many tears shed or much in the way of sympathy for them?

Oddly enough I've just seen a couple of Chinooks heading SW from Hereford direction. I know the chaps over Hereford use them, so I wonder if they've called in the specialists for a bit of 'on the ground' recon / intelligence?

Not from what I've seen. Most of my liberal Guardian-reading, hand-wringing friends were calling for the army last night. It was getting very out-of-hand at one point and it genuinely looked like the whole city was going up in flames.

I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in a bit of air support. The main problem last night seemed to be working out where it was going to flare up next. Saturday night was obvious, if a lot bigger than expected, Sunday was all neighbouring areas, last night seemed pretty random.

[Apache]

Not from what I've seen. Most of my liberal Guardian-reading, hand-wringing friends were calling for the army last night. It was getting very out-of-hand at one point and it genuinely looked like the whole city was going up in flames.

I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in a bit of air support. The main problem last night seemed to be working out where it was going to flare up next. Saturday night was obvious, if a lot bigger than expected, Sunday was all neighbouring areas, last night seemed pretty random.

Well, getting intelligence via infiltration is what my neighbours on the other side of the hill do very well. If they are getting involved, then God help the bad guy!

[Surf01]

Apart from the mystery of Ealing, most of the trouble has been in the poorest areas and a lot of black people live in those areas. Bear in mind, though, that you can't actually see most people anyway because of hoods and scarves. That may be what black people dress like in your area; in central London, all poor kids dress like that.

As I said in my other post, the ethnic minority areas tend to have been the quiet ones so far. The kids that are causing trouble are the well-integrated English ones.

In an earlier post I did refer to a criminal element within various ethnic groups which give all the rest a bad name! Luckily it is a minority and their upstanding counterparts tend to pass on their names onto the local constabulary. Whether anything will happen to them once arrested is another question. A slap on the wrist, a fine, they get to keep their new 42"`Plasma TV and sent on a safari to Africa to comply with their human rights or such like????

[Apache]

Noted the comments from a police chief coming out of the COBRA meeting.

Reading between the lines "Get off the streets tonight because if you are caught rioting / looting, they will crack your head"

I think they've been embarrassed by their inaction and over-political correctness last night, so will be out to put that right tonight.