Starter Motor AGAIN.

[Webbo]

A bit of advice please.....Last year my starter motor started playing up so I ordered and fitted new contact kit, all has been well until last month when it started playing up again so out it comes again. Stripped it out and all looked fine, so off to Auto Electrician. The verdict from himself was because it would work on the bench with a couple of taps with a hammer was that brushes were at fault.
So he cleans them up and shows me the motor working fine, the last couple of days its started doing the same and will only start with me tapping it and someone else turning the key.

Also I have found two ring terminal wires just haning in the same area coming out of a loom nearby, the rings measure 20mm outside dia one has a 10mm hole in it and the other 5mm anydody knows what they are for and where they go ?

Lastly I feel I need to be ringing RT on Mon as I get in some remote places with my shooting and fishing and Moss the Dog cant use a hammer or turn the key!

Thanks in advance for any help received...........Webbo.

[POPEYE]

I might be wrong but those wires sound like they should be connected to the solinoid (on top of the starter) but before you connect em i will try and get my small camera in there tomorrow morn and see what i can find, meanwhile i'd try pm ing Vince, he's stripped down many a 2.4,
having to "tap" the starter useuall means sticky shaft on the engaging cog (these are useually dryish, engine oil can prevent it sliding freely, too viscious, penitrating oil should clean it up, with the starter off the truck flash a battery across the connections while holding on tight!! and make sure the cog's sliding across ok), weak motor windings (partially burned ) will reduce the motors power also worn brushes or worn segments on the rotor resulting in bad contact will effect the power (they will also premeturely wear out brushes),
Vince might also be able to help out with a replacement starter, worth asking,
cheer's ian

[Webbo]

Thanks Ian, that all makes sense. The only thing strange is the terminal with the 5mm hole ? Obviosly the 10mm terminal will go over the post on the starter. If you could have a look at yours it would help but tbh I think I will order a new starter from RT as I just cant rely on this one.....

[BUSHWHACKER]

Depends on what your electrician did to clean the brushes, but I would say they need replacing.
Usually there's carbon build-up between the copper segments on the commutator and gets scraped out when doing a service, causing slight burrs on them that accelerates brush wear. This is normally not a problem if the brushes are being re-newed, but when replacing the old worn brushes, the carbon builds up again quickly and causes problems because the springs behind the brushes won't be pushing them to make a good contact on the commutator.

If the contacts look OK then it's most likely the brushes that need replacing.
(providing you connected the wiring correctly of course)

[Webbo]

Thanks Vince, again that all makes
sense, think I will order new starter as I no faith in this one. Any ideas on the wires ?

[Webbo]

I might be wrong but those wires sound like they should be connected to the solinoid (on top of the starter) but before you connect em i will try and get my small camera in there tomorrow morn and see what i can find, meanwhile i'd try pm ing Vince, he's stripped down many a 2.4,
having to "tap" the starter useuall means sticky shaft on the engaging cog (these are useually dryish, engine oil can prevent it sliding freely, too viscious, penitrating oil should clean it up, with the starter off the truck flash a battery across the connections while holding on tight!! and make sure the cog's sliding across ok), weak motor windings (partially burned ) will reduce the motors power also worn brushes or worn segments on the rotor resulting in bad contact will effect the power (they will also premeturely wear out brushes),
Vince might also be able to help out with a replacement starter, worth asking,
cheer's ian

If you could have a look at those wires Ian it would be of great help. Or if anybody elses knows about them please.

[Vagrant No2]

I got a good used 2.4 starter here if you want it . Make me an offer . You only 30 mins away from me.

[POPEYE]

[QUOTE=Webbo;720925]If you could have a look at those wires Ian it would be of great help. Or if anybody elses knows about them please.[/QUOT

iI know there's a sensor/sender thing behind the starter (on the block) pretty sure that wire has a plug on it tho, if you can feel behind the starter just check that thats connected ok, been searching the electricle section last night and also google but cant find owt relating to the starter wiring diag's
i'll see what i can find in the verious pics i took when i had mine stripped and will also take some pic this morning, just a thought but (anyone else?) is there a wire connected to the solinoid to prevent starting when in drive?
Dave, shift the lever into drive and try to start, if ya just get a click then this wires nothing to do with that,

only pics i can find of that area mate, are those the wires in the first one?, second pics the sensor (think it's the water temp)

[Webbo]

[QUOTE=POPEYE;720927]

If you could have a look at those wires Ian it would be of great help. Or if anybody elses knows about them please.[/QUOT

iI know there's a sensor/sender thing behind the starter (on the block) pretty sure that wire has a plug on it tho, if you can feel behind the starter just check that thats connected ok, been searching the electricle section last night and also google but cant find owt relating to the starter wiring diag's
i'll see what i can find in the verious pics i took when i had mine stripped and will also take some pic this morning, just a thought but (anyone else?) is there a wire connected to the solinoid to prevent starting when in drive?
Dave, shift the lever into drive and try to start, if ya just get a click then this wires nothing to do with that,

only pics i can find of that area mate, are those the wires in the first one?, second pics the sensor (think it's the water temp)

Yes Ian its the two wires in the first picture the one with the small hole and the one with the larger hole. Anybody knows where they go ? cant imagine they go together. Thanks Ian.

[Webbo]

I got a good used 2.4 starter here if you want it . Make me an offer . You only 30 mins away from me.

Thanks Rick, I may well take you up on that.

[POPEYE]

Well Dave afraid i'm not gonna be much use here, no matter where i stuck the camera theres just too much shite in the way, the first pic (if yo look closly) is the main starter terminal (green line) and what appears to be a thinner cable (yellow line) going to it (there is also another slightly thicker one just above but i think thats the plug lead to the sender on the block)
second pic is a lead bolted to the trans fluid filler pipe so is an earth, (dont take any notice of the yellow ring tag attached to the same bolt, it was an earth i' removed,)
just guessing by the size of the larger ring tag that the only place it went was on the starter main terminal, maybe left off last time? other than that i dont know, tried getting at it from above, below and through the wheel arch but cant see f###all, trouble is when i did my sorting out i sleeved most cables in that fluted wrap stuff,
as far as i remember the only other large ring terminals were on the glow plug buss bar connection, buggered if i can remember what i reconnected to the starter terminal,
where's nifty nev when ya need him?

[Webbo]

Thanks for all your time and effort Ian much appreciated. Hopefully someone will know what they are and where they go. It could be like you said the larger one goes on the starter post and the smaller one an earth.

[POPEYE]

Cant think where else they go, can anyone else shed some light on these two wires?

[Webbo]

Seems nobody knows Ian, I will just have to leave them off as they were ! Not ideal I know. Did you get my pm Rick ? I will have to be ordering mid morning if not as really ###### stuck without Truck.

Ian bear with me with bits as I cant get to post office, should be able to on Wednesday.

[POPEYE]

No worries Dave, sort your starter out, thats more important, removeeing the thing is a bit of a sod, the bolt at the back is a bit difficult to get at, ya need several extensions and a uj , things are a bit easier with a body lift, i thought of cutting away the inner wing to make access easier (both sides) and just screwing some rubber sheet back to cover the gap, might still do that some time, good luck with it, for peace of mind i'd go for a new starter,