Well done Alex

[yoshie]

Well do to President Salmond on his stunning blitz on the Scottish Political landscape.

We will get a Scotland Bill with real teeth now giving real hope to the future.

[flounderbout]

Independence round the corner? I guess anyone who wants the Tories to remain in power ever after would be delighted.
Not sure the reported £17.7bn deficit and £125bn share of UK debt would be great for those North of the border...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7044017.ece

[Chillitt]

Imagine Westminster without Scottish MPs.. Bring it on..

[flounderbout]

Imagine Westminster without Scottish MPs.. Bring it on..

Really? Eternal Tories? I am no fan of any of their opponents either, but it strikes me that any poticial party with an iron grip on government is a bad thing...

[yoshie]

Independence round the corner? I guess anyone who wants the Tories to remain in power ever after would be delighted.
Not sure the reported £17.7bn deficit and £125bn share of UK debt would be great for those North of the border...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7044017.ece

Independence is still a long way off I fear. The referendum will happen in the latter part of this 5 year term however, the size of the SNP landslide is down to the fantastic job they managed as a minority administration, 84 out of 94 manifesto commitments met. Many who voted for them this time would still say no to full Independence.

If the Scotland Bill gets teeth then maybe people will continue to grow in confidence and one day Independence may happen. I am not a flag waving "Freedom" nationalist, I do argue that financially Scotland would be in a better position. I accept there are many issue not least welfare, national insurance to name but two big ones.

[Sancho]

Well done indeed. I am, personally, all for Scottish (and Welsh, Northern Irish and, indeed, English) independence and if they've come to power on the back of meeting their manifesto pledges, fair play to them.

[yoshie]

Really? Eternal Tories? I am no fan of any of their opponents either, but it strikes me that any poticial party with an iron grip on government is a bad thing...

I agree the iron grip is not a good thing. The proportional system in Scotland with constituency and list candidates was supposed to ensure a rainbow government more often than not. That is why the landslide was so amazing and unexpected.

[Rustinho]

Really? Eternal Tories? I am no fan of any of their opponents either, but it strikes me that any poticial party with an iron grip on government is a bad thing...

I suspect that the opposition would change in order to gain power. Or maybe the tories would split in two between pro/anti europe, libertarian/hang 'em flog 'em brigade, economic interventionists/free capitalists or whatever.

After all, the "old" arguments of left & right were won & lost years ago and it's about time things moved on.

I can't remember who the commentator was that I heard on the radio the other day but I think he had a pretty good point when talking about Salmond. He appears to be such a good politician because all the other good politicians from Scotland make the move down to Westminster. For the other parties its only the second rate ones that want to stay up in Edinburgh because they sense that the real power is still in London.

If Scotland were to become independent that would almost certainly change.

My suspicion is that even with the power to control the timing and control the question in an independence referendum it'll be quite an achievement for Salmond to achieve what he wants. I think the real reason that the SNP have done as well as they have is because they are a traditional party of the left which everyone knows that the Labour party aren't anymore.

I think you're absolutely spot on about Scots not being so keen to take on a proportionate share of the deficit. (certainly if "proportionate" means something equivalent to the Barnett formula!)

[yoshie]

I suspect that the opposition would change in order to gain power. Or maybe the tories would split in two between pro/anti europe, libertarian/hang 'em flog 'em brigade, economic interventionists/free capitalists or whatever.

After all, the "old" arguments of left & right were won & lost years ago and it's about time things moved on.

I can't remember who the commentator was that I heard on the radio the other day but I think he had a pretty good point when talking about Salmond. He appears to be such a good politician because all the other good politicians from Scotland make the move down to Westminster. For the other parties its only the second rate ones that want to stay up in Edinburgh because they sense that the real power is still in London.

If Scotland were to become independent that would almost certainly change.

My suspicion is that even with the power to control the timing and control the question in an independence referendum it'll be quite an achievement for Salmond to achieve what he wants. I think the real reason that the SNP have done as well as they have is because they are a traditional party of the left which everyone knows that the Labour party aren't anymore.

I think you're absolutely spot on about Scots not being so keen to take on a proportionate share of the deficit. (certainly if "proportionate" means something equivalent to the Barnett formula!)

A party of the left like labour lol.
Barnett is like getting pocket money back from a dad when you are the bigger bread winner.

Salmond is only goodd because the good ones are in London lol who had you in mind.

[flounderbout]

I do argue that financially Scotland would be in a better position.

How so? I have no view either way and I am not an economist, but every figure I have ever read suggests that they would be financially f%&$ed (maybe because I only read English papers! ). How do the pro-independence people get their numbers? There seems like a pretty big difference between a £17bn pa deficit and being better off.

The only "pro" argument we get down here is from people who complain about the perceived huge subsidies going north of the border (and again I stress I have no view on that!), so I would be interested to hear the other side of the coin...

[Rustinho]

A party of the left like labour lol.
Barnett is like getting pocket money back from a dad when you are the bigger bread winner.

Salmond is only goodd because the good ones are in London lol who had you in mind.

Good politicians (as in successful enough to make it in Westminster) that moved from Scotland? John Reid, Gordon Brown, George Robertson, Alistair Darling, Douglas Alexander, Charles Kennedy, Danny Alexander, David Steele, Alan Beith (I'm counting the half of Berwick that is in Scotland! lol), Menzies Campbell, Liam Fox (lets face it - he deserves a mention just for shagging Natalie Imbruglia if nowt else!), Iain Duncan-Smith, Malcolm Rifkind.

(And those are just the first ones I can think of)

It's pretty hard to argue against the fact that the majority of the wealth in the UK is focussed in the south west of England. It wouldn't surprise me if the tax raised would be similarly spread. That'll be one of the points raised in any independence referendum.

Would the UK government release North Sea oil without a fight? Not likely.
Would the EU accept an independent Scotland into it? Debateable - there are plenty of similar countries within countries in the EU, even across borders (eg Spain & France/Catalonia) and it would be interesting to see how the bigger "parent" states would react to a smaller independent state breaking free.

It's an interesting situation for us lot south of the border, particularly for ex-pats like my dad.

If the SNP are ever going to make the break I reckon they'll have to do it in the next few years...

[yoshie]

How so? I have no view either way and I am not an economist, but every figure I have ever read suggests that they would be financially f%&$ed (maybe because I only read English papers! ). How do the pro-independence people get their numbers? There seems like a pretty big difference between a £17bn pa deficit and being better off.

The only "pro" argument we get down here is from people who complain about the perceived huge subsidies going north of the border (and again I stress I have no view on that!), so I would be interested to hear the other side of the coin...

Basic and common first arguments for and against here

http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/in...lly_benefit.3F

Rustinho I would add in response to both your posts the following quote.

"A country is more than a balance sheet, a nation more than a cash account, a people more than a bank statement. There are wealthy nations and there are poor nations and each of them goes about its business and its international interactions seeking its best advantage. Most of them run annual deficits and carry large debts. Seldom does any nation decide that its wealth or its poverty requires it to be subsumed by another and seldom does any nation decide that its wealth or its poverty requires it to secede from such a union; nations are more than the sum of their sovereign funds, you cannot place the value of a community in a set of accounts any more than you can weigh identity or measure the dimensions of belonging. "

And on a more emotional level, although I do try and stay away from this side of the debate.

Scotland; a nation with our own distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral codes, customs, history and traditions, aptitudes and ambitions, in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life. By all canons of law we are a nation.

[gwh200]

I only came here for the deep fried mars bars.

Actually, the biggest reason is the being able to move without bumping into someone, the education system, less strain on public services, the very real possibility of getting snowed in AND deep fried mars bars.
Alex salmond and his SNP team have done exceptionally well, but he would fit in quite well at Westminster...he's slimey enough!
But none the less, their whole party ethos is putting scotlands interest first...and considering how many list msp's there are, it was uncanny that they got a majority...well done.

Edit: the best reason for moving to Scotland...the very real possibility, of being at Brians house, watching an electrically generated fire...but not from his stereo. Albannach still hasn't done that job, from about two years ago.

[Bogus]

Alex salmond and his SNP team have done exceptionally well, but he would fit in quite well at Westminster...he's slimey enough!
But none the less, their whole party ethos is putting scotlands interest first...and considering how many list msp's there are, it was uncanny that they got a majority...well done.

Does the above mean that you have mellowed towards Alex Salmond, or do still feel the same as you did when you said the below

I feel I should point out,alex salmond is a TOTAL c0ck. As has been noted, he seems to be living in a perpeptual episode of braveheart

mr salmond takes being a c0ck to new heights. He talks such complete and utter b0ll0cks he doesn't shave...he gets a facial brazillian.

in fact the SNP as far as I could ever tell, rely on living in a perpeptual version of braveheart to keep the seats

Ale salmond is though,IMHO, a compl,ete and utter c0ck

[gwh200]

Well yes...he's a cock.

But we had Blair/brown/balls...total cocks. We now have cameron...posh cock, and the strangeness that is Hague...an odd cock.
Could be worse though. Could be worse though. Could be Nick clegg. Now he's a "all the big boys are laughing at me now" cock.

Must be something to with being called alex...