Brake Shudder

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Yeah ive thought about that ive got kumho mud flats on them and ive only just put them on but i already had this problem before the tyres were fitted so i kinda ruled it out if that was the right thing to do.

[Shalershasker]

Replace with new, it's only my opinion but I'd be buggered if I'd replace anything to do with the braking systems with second hand parts, and make sure everything is very clean before bolting the new parts on, for instance, discs.

[kpautos]

cant see how tyres can make a difference unless there is a problem withthem in the first place, how they could cause a violent shudder whilst braking but be fine with no vibration ect at any other time is beyond me, this fault sounds like a front brake issue to me, and like the above post said and i said last night, everything needs to be 100% for them to work 100%, the discs need checking for true[not warped] and if they are it is due to exessive heat build up- for instance we allways reccomend gentle braking for the first few hundred miles or so, its sounding to me that you could save money by having them checked by someone with the right equipment-even if that costs you a bit.

[gwh200]

Tyres can make a massive difference. Try swapping the fronts to the back.

[kpautos]

so tyres can make the brakes judder even if they are round and in balance?

[Sancho]

The discs were new but the calipers were second hand and the ones i have now are working correctly with all pistons free. Ive just changed the off side calliper again 2day and put a second hand disc on from which it was off the same vechile and it was being used by the same caliper which i have and the caliper works fine. could it be that the disc could be warped even though the caliper is in gwo??

Two questions:

When you say calipers, do you mean pads? Are you putting new pads on?

Why are you putting random second hand brake components on? Call me fussy but, if I had a problem with my brakes and it seemed worse on one side, my first port of call would be to make sure I had identical 'consumables' on both sides.

[gwh200]

so tyres can make the brakes judder even if they are round and in balance?

No...I thought I'd make it up.

it's happened to me a few times. The bigger the tyre, the more noticeable it can be. If all braking components are good to go, all steering and suspension components are sound and there's no big play in the wheel bearings, swap them tyres over...worth a go. They may lookround and true, but what if thf tread pattern has worn, just a little bit, odd. This can give you all the symptoms described.

[Apache]

Square tyres definitely make the brakes shudder.

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Ok guys ive just ordered new discs again from rough trax this morning they should be here tomorrow. I will strip both sides and take a good look at everything, throw a load more grease on the bearings and double check all brake hoses and make sure the calipers are in good working order. Ive just changed the brake pads so they are just a couple weeks old. Thankyou for all your help and i'll let you know how it goes.

[kpautos]

i am down your way in 3 weeks but i think the better half would ditch me if i came over to help, shame your not close by!

[surfenstein]

IF you have changed all associated caliper parts and brake discs,and changed the tyres over,then i would seriously look at the flexible brake pipes on that side.They can collapse and stop fluid returning to the master cylinder thus keeping the brake applied just enough to grab the disc heat it up and warp it.

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Yeah im gonna go through all possibilities on sunday when i have the day off and see why this keeps happening my surfs gonna get alot of love that day.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Nearside brake calipers on 2nd gen Surfs have always been a problem, one of the pistons stick causing the pad to drag which eventually heats the disc up and it warps.

You said it pulls to the left but you're convinced the problem is on the right???

Remove the nearside caliper, inspect it for corrosion around the pistons that could prevent them from moving smoothly in and out, clean them up with some steel wool if necessary, then make sure the rubber boots around the pistons are clean and dry.
Re-fit caliper and bleed the fluid thoroughly,

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Yeah it pulls to the left when braking, sorry i should of made that more clearer. That tells me that the nearside caliper is doing most of the work and the offside has the problem. I have got a secondhand gwo caliper now for that side and just waiting for the new brake disc from rough trax which should be with me tomorrow. When i fit that disc im gonna do a full inspection on both sides and make sure all is working correctly.

[Wolfracer]

It's not the tyres.

One thing no one has mentioned is material transfer. Long periods of braking, lets say from a high speed and then holding the brakes on when you stop create a massive hotspot. This doesn't generally lead to warping, but DOES allow the now hot pad material to transfer from the pad to the disc, effectively producing a high spot.
The next time you try and brake, the pad "jumps" over the high spot and causes judder.
This is well documented elsewhere, but I have never heard of it on these cars.
Warping a disc is a lot harder than you'd think. Again, this is well documented elsewhere.
As for the puilling to one side, I would assume sticking piston (ie not working) in offside caliper, very worn pads allowing over extension of piston causing the sticking) or a more discrete issue such as a kinked hose or dented pipe? Have you done any spannerwork in the engine bay? Worth checking the lines.