So it begins.

[John h]

Brace yerself Sheila this is only the start !

I'll dig up me grandad and get him back to start the 2010 Jarrow March ! me dad still has the pic on the wall in the madhouse all those lads ready to start in Durham

no mate we aredivided and conquered, but no matter who got in it was only a matter of time ...not if but when !

over spent bust broke etc now we have to get back into credit...no easy way to do it

[Hazzo]

I'm glad your old mans proud of the fact your Grandfather did try but lets cut all the $hit about being in it together, the £uckin tories have never been in nothing together with the working classes and only those with very short memories or the young should vote these cretins in again. H

[Rustinho]

I'm glad your old mans proud of the fact your Grandfather did try but lets cut all the $hit about being in it together, the £uckin tories have never been in nothing together with the working classes and only those with very short memories or the young should vote these cretins in again. H

"Breaking state monopolies, encouraging competition, lowering taxes and returning control of the trade unions to their members unleashed a new age of enterprise and wealth creation. Council House sales meant thousands of families were given the chance to have capital for the first time in their lives and freed from municipal controls that even decided the colour of their front door. Workers in privatised companies were given shares in the business as she set about achieving her vision of a meritocratic property owning democracry."

(Lord Forsyth on Thatcher in the 80s, 2010)

I think the above quote says pretty much what I wanted to say about how the tories should be considered every bit as much a party of the working classes as any other could be. Not that Thatcher was really ever a "proper" tory/conservative but that is almost worth an entire essay in it's own right...!

I'm just about old enough to remember what a mess the country was in during the late 70s after successive governments wrestled with problem after problem (oil, strikes, poor management of public companies, etc). Most of my understanding is in hindsight because I was only a young kid at the time. I do, however, remember quite clearly the strikes during the winter of discontent (my dad was on strike for a start), the rubbish not being collected, not having to go to school because they were on strike (woohoo!), the buses not running, etc.

Today I see the country in a similar mess to the late 70s for some slightly different reasons and some very similar ones. (Casino banking, excessive public spending, the state trying to gain control over minutiae of our lives)

The tories will never be perfect and my experience of seeing what the Lib Dems (and their Alliance predecessors) were like doesn't fill me with confidence either but at their best they both certainly possess people of a superior calibre both intellectually and practically than the labour party has done for an awful long time.

I also feel that the very nature of coalition government will force debate over policy at the highest level ensuring that things are properly argued over and (hopefully) a working consensus achieved before being put into action. I certainly don't see the prospect of new initiatives day after day after day like we had from the last lot in power...

[Hazzo]

"Breaking state monopolies, encouraging competition, lowering taxes and returning control of the trade unions to their members unleashed a new age of enterprise and wealth creation. Council House sales meant thousands of families were given the chance to have capital for the first time in their lives and freed from municipal controls that even decided the colour of their front door. Workers in privatised companies were given shares in the business as she set about achieving her vision of a meritocratic property owning democracry."

All about debt, if they keep normal wage earners in debt people work when they are ill because they have to while due to the shortage created in social housing we ended up with private landlords plundering the workers again and those who couldn't afford the rents became our homeless problem, soaring house prices since then have contributed further to division in society rendering once decent estates to ghetto level. The scumbags and scroats constantly referred to on here are people who no longer have job opportunity by postcode, despair creates desperate people, desperate people will steal to provide for their families as long as there's no jobs for them, I for one, don't blame these people, I do blame Thatcher, her parties policies, for destroying communities and the me me me mentality which exists in today's UK.

The next 5 years will see off those pensioners who could never afford savings in their working lives, this winter will get rid of many who won't be able to cope with excessive VAT on fuel/other items, the changes made to the state pensions system will ensure rises are no where near sufficient to keep pace with the inflated prices initiated by VAT alone, pensioners struggled before with the lowest rates compared to prices of anywhere in Europe

The strikes weren't done on a whim and Thatcher almost broke the bank to defeat the miners/unions. Then as soon as she had her way we lost every industry which provided this countries wealth in the first place. We build/produce/manufacture precisely nothing anymore, relying too much on the financial sector.

As far as the libdems providing argument to producing well thought out plans for fair policy is a complete joke, I at first thought this could be possible then realized Cameron's sidekick Clegg was just another nodding donkey, another millionaire who doesn't give a f**k about anyone but himself.

Fairer Britain is a complete nonsense. H

[Rustinho]

All about debt, if they keep normal wage earners in debt people work when (don't get into debt then) they are ill because they have to while due to the shortage created in social housing we ended up with private landlords plundering the workers again (virtually every private landlord I've ever had has been perfectly reasonable and pleasant to deal with - if they aren't you walk away and try another one. One of the joys of a free market rather than state monopolisation) and those who couldn't afford the rents became our homeless problem, soaring house prices (not enough supply given - because people are more prosperous than they used to be they want bigger houses, extra bedrooms, etc, and they haven't been provided) since then have contributed further to division in society rendering once decent estates to ghetto level. The scumbags and scroats constantly referred to on here are people who no longer have job opportunity by postcode, despair creates desperate people, desperate people will steal to provide for their families as long as there's no jobs for them, I for one, don't blame these people [COLOR="red"](I blame these people. Ever heard of being free to make your own choices? The vast majority of people who struggle in difficult situations do not turn to crime. To tar them all with the same brush is as bad as being racist/homophobic/sexist/any other form of discrimination as far as I'm concerned), I do blame Thatcher, her parties policies, for destroying communities and the me me me mentality which exists in today's UK. (personally, I would blame human nature. There certainly was a lack of political encouragement from ALL SIDES on this matter however.)

The next 5 years will see off those pensioners who could never afford savings in their working lives(the last 13 years have discouraged plenty of people from actually saving, myself included, because it wasn't worthwhile having a pension, etc, cos they were so heavily taxed), this winter will get rid of many who won't be able to cope with excessive VAT on fuel/other items(that sounds a bit silly if you ask me. It is much more dependent on the severity of the winter as to how many pensioners get killed off cos virtually every pensioner I know refuses to put the heating on regardless of what the weather is like or how much money they have!), the changes made to the state pensions system will ensure rises are no where near sufficient to keep pace with the inflated prices initiated by VAT alone(you mean the change to the state pension to link it to earnings? More prosperous country = better off pensioners), pensioners struggled before with the lowest rates compared to prices of anywhere in Europe (on the contrary, whilst I don't know whether you are correct or not regarding state pensions, private pension provision is much more commonplace and more generous than any country in Europe by a long chalk)

The strikes weren't done on a whim (correct, they were done against their members interests and purely in an attempt to achieve the political aim of getting rid of the "hated" tories) and Thatcher almost broke the bank to defeat the miners/unions (it's a good job that she freed the banks up to make plenty of profit in the international markets, along with Reagan in the US, allowing much more freedom of movement of capital and thus stimulating prosperity in other free countries). Then as soon as she had her way we lost every industry which provided this countries wealth in the first place(Lets see, like coal mining which was going down the toilet anyway because of cheaper imports. The automotive industry destroyed by bad management, poor quality control and relentless strikes over silly pointless issues like not having free tea/coffee/biscuits/not having enough flavours of crisps/or whatever else made up nonsense I could dream up as an example! The steel industry, crippled by strikes in other industries as well as its own. The state owned pharmaceutical company which, oh dear, actually became a roaring success once it was released from the shakles of state ownership). We build/produce/manufacture precisely nothing anymore (not true. The electronics industry had been successful since the 70s, although less so now as competition from elsewhere in the world catches up, the pottery industry in Stoke-on-Trent, whilst decimated by cheap foreign competition, still has a reputation for producing the highest qulaity hotelware and decorative ware), relying too much on the financial sector.

As far as the libdems providing argument to producing well thought out plans for fair policy is a complete joke(it would be and it isn't exactly what I said, or at least meant. The very fact that the LibDems are there means that plans have to go through an awful lot of planning to agree them between the parties which is a huge amount of extra scrutiny which no government has ever had to go through before and whatever political colours were going through this process it would produce better legislation at the end of the day because it HAS had so much extra scrutiny before going through parliament), I at first thought this could be possible then realized Cameron's sidekick Clegg(yet another multi millionaire banker who was a fully paid up member of the pro-banking lobby between being a Euro MP who is on the record as effectively swindling expenses and becoming a Westminster MP and suddenly having an epiphany against "fat cat bankers" because it was the way public opinion had swung) was just another nodding donkey, another millionaire who doesn't give a f**k about anyone but himself.

Fairer Britain is a complete nonsense. H

We will see in the coming 5 years or so - personally I remain to be convinced either way, despite my apparent political bias (!).

[Vultch]

IMHO the majority of the mess we are in is because of poor financial management. Casio banking.
To encourage the boom the USA relaxed its controls on the financial world, cutting the red tape (thanks Bush) and yes the economy boomed but some banking conmen also moved in creating and selling financial products that were basically corrupt and would never deliver the promised returns.
It had to crash sometime.
We all enjoyed the boom and borrowing was so easy but perhaps we should put those controls back in place.
The "workers" really did nothing wrong except to trust government and the banking system. The cuts we face now are as a result of having to rescue the Banking system. A small minority made a killing out of this mess.

[Rustinho]

IMHO the majority of the mess we are in is because of poor financial management. Casio banking.
To encourage the boom the USA relaxed its controls on the financial world, cutting the red tape (thanks Bush) and yes the economy boomed but some banking conmen also moved in creating and selling financial products that were basically corrupt and would never deliver the promised returns.
It had to crash sometime.
We all enjoyed the boom and borrowing was so easy but perhaps we should put those controls back in place.
The "workers" really did nothing wrong except to trust government and the banking system. The cuts we face now are as a result of having to rescue the Banking system. A small minority made a killing out of this mess.

I have a suspicion that we may have been wrong to "save" the banking system. Sure, it would've been much more painful in the short term but I think the results may well have been much more beneficial to us all in the long term.

I've always had a strong interest in politics. My grandad was the general secretary of a trade union, my dad was a union rep at the post office for donkeys years and my family used to help run a local party in the 80s and stood for election to council, etc (got me no end of grief sometimes at school, etc!) so I guess it must be in the blood somewhere!

[Vultch]

I agree we should have made it a lot more painful for them, notice the outrage among the banker when the Lib dems suggested separating the high risk casino banking from normal day to day banking. Ensuring Banks had the money to back up their risky endeavors should it all go wrong.

[Spoggle]

I remember that nice Mrs. Thatcher. I joined the police in November 1980 and a couple of weeks later she gave us a 23% pay rise. A few years later we were used to crush the N.U.M and destroy whole communities in some parts of the country. Nice bit of forward planning that. Have to say I dont think that our current muppets have had the wit to figure out who will do the dirty work this time. Perhaps the 'Voluntary Sector' cos this lot wont pay for owt

Spoggle

[che2318]

yea you can blame this person and that.

at the end of the day, these work places would have closed eventually as it is far cheaper to import goods.


strikes would have gone on for better working conditions, pay, pensions etc etc...

but places like china do not have fantastic working conditions for its employees, pensions etc so they can produce more coal, goods etc at a cheaper price than we ever could.



the tories can not do much worse than the labour government, we have already spent countless billions on Iraq and Afghan and no doubt we will spend even more in the years to come.



i for one, would like them to scrap the grant for having a baby.

''well done, you can stick your di*k in your missus pretty well, heres 180/250/500 pound for doing it''

[Rustinho]

I remember that nice Mrs. Thatcher. I joined the police in November 1980 and a couple of weeks later she gave us a 23% pay rise. A few years later we were used to crush the N.U.M and destroy whole communities in some parts of the country. Nice bit of forward planning that. Have to say I dont think that our current muppets have had the wit to figure out who will do the dirty work this time. Perhaps the 'Voluntary Sector' cos this lot wont pay for owt

Spoggle

I don't think there's owt to pay anyone with!!D

[Spoggle]

I don't think there's owt to pay anyone with!!D

They could always make a bit of dosh by converting the Palace of Westminster in posh appartments and flog em the the ruddy bankers. Bung all the M.Ps into a disused church hall instead, I'm sure that they could all talk as much claptrap in less luxurious surroundings. Anyway I hope that they can find a few quid from somewhere cos there aint half gonna be some dole bill to pay soon.

Spoggle

[Spoggle]

yea you can blame this person and that.

at the end of the day, these work places would have closed eventually as it is far cheaper to import goods.


strikes would have gone on for better working conditions, pay, pensions etc etc...

but places like china do not have fantastic working conditions for its employees, pensions etc so they can produce more coal, goods etc at a cheaper price than we ever could.



the tories can not do much worse than the labour government, we have already spent countless billions on Iraq and Afghan and no doubt we will spend even more in the years to come.



i for one, would like them to scrap the grant for having a baby.

''well done, you can stick your di*k in your missus pretty well, heres 180/250/500 pound for doing it''

Yes many of these workplaces would have closed in time, but perhaps not all at once as was the case with the mines in many parts of the country. There has been some talk of one or two reopening as they have good coal reserves still left.
Eveyone should have the right to a good safe working environment and to be treated in a fair manner. If they arnt they have the right to withdraw their
labour,but I would also defend the right of someone to continue to work during a strike.
Countries like China have no right to be proud of the way that it's people are exploited, life is nothing but cheap in such places. In many ways we in the more enlightend world should also carry some shame for trading with countries who have such appaling civil rights records.
Alas the conflicts in the middle and far east will go on for many years to come with or without involvement from the U.K. Safe to say that to prevent terrorist outrages in this country we need to be looking a little closer to home for the candidates so perhaps a little less should be spent overseas and a bit more on security in the U.K
As for benefits to those who chose to have children well if they have paid into the system they should get something back out, however those who choose to live a life whithout being of any use to society should learn that you only get out of life what you put in to it.
I find it difficult to understand how some people who I know to be longterm unemployed can still appear to have a better lifestyle than someone who works hard and struggles to make ends meet.Then bankers who are gambling with the hard earned of the guy who works hard and still has a hard time, get a bonus that would keep 10 families in luxury and still whine about the income tax they pay. So called sportsmen who get paid more than the average working man could earn in 4 years fo kicking a ball around a field for a couple of houres a week. Perhaps if someone in goverment could come up with an answer to that one I woud have some faith again.

Spoggle

[MattR]

Good luck to you, I'm afraid you are just the first on the target list of the ConDems. Just watch what they do to the NHS. They are going to put £80 billion of NHS budget into the hands of GPs who refused to join the NHS when they were asked.