Engine oil

[noobysurfer]

Just wondering if it's possible to use 10w40 "surf oil" in a 5w30 engine?? I am thinking that the codes are for viscosity of the oil and semi and fully synthetic.
How would this affect engine performance? Oh and while I'm on, has anyone tried two stroke oil in the diesel trick? Apparently it boosts performance but could be utter pish!

[si tate]

Ive used 10/40 in my surf since i got it 3 years ago & had no problem at all.
I think most people on here run 10/40 but ive never heard of the 2 stroke trick you mention.

[noobysurfer]

I run it too as it's supplied with the roughtrax service kit! Do you know if it could be used in a mini which runs 5w30?

[Albannach]

Oh and while I'm on, has anyone tried two stroke oil in the diesel trick? Apparently it boosts performance but could be utter pish!

This has been discussed before. There are 2 stroke diesels which generate more power per litre than normal diesels. Puting 2 stroke oil in a normal diesel, in too high a ratio, will just cause smoke, I can't see how it would generate more power. There may be cleansing benefits, much like sticking some PS fluid in a tank of fuel?

[si tate]

I run it too as it's supplied with the roughtrax service kit! Do you know if it could be used in a mini which runs 5w30?

Is the mini diesel?

[noobysurfer]

No petrol so there is my answer!!!NO!!!! took a while for the penny to drop!!

[Apache]

Buying Oil, Some Basic Advice From Opie Oils

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This post may seem like going back to basics but we are constantly surprised by the amount of people who do not know or understand what is written on a bottle of oil and therefore have no idea of what they are looking for, buying or using.


This post should help as a basic guide, for more detailed information contact us and we will be happy to help.

So, to be blunt about the subject, if a bottle of oil does not contain the following basic information then DO NOT buy it look for something that does!

1) The purpose for which it is intended (i.e. Motor oil, Gear oil etc)

2) The viscosity (i.e. 10w-40, 5w-30 etc for Motor oils and 80w-90, 75w-90 etc for Gear oils)

3) The specifications that it meets (should contain both API and ACEA ratings)

4) The OEM Approvals that it carries and the codes (i.e. MB229.3, VW504.00, FORD 913a/b, BMW LL04 etc)

Ignore the marketing blurb on the label it is in many cases meaningless and we will explain later what statements you should treat with skepticism.

So, what does the above information mean and why is it important?

THE BASICS

All oils are intended for an application and in general are not interchangeable. You would not for example put an Automatic Transmission Oil or a Gear Oil in your engine! It is important to know what the oils intended purpose is.

VISCOSITY

Most oils on the shelves today are “Multigrades”, which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)

Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thin oil in winter and a thicker oil in the summer.

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature.

The lower the “W” number the better the oils cold temperature/cold start performance. I.E. 5w is better than 10w etc

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100 degC. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits.

Once again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.



SPECIFICATIONS

Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of an oil and whether it has met or passed the latest tests or whether the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date.

There are two specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d’Automobiles) all good oils should contain both of these and an understanding of what they mean is important.

API

This is the more basic of the two specs as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories.

S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.

The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:

PETROL

SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.

SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.

SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits

SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards

SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

Note:

All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.

DIESEL

CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only

CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines

CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine

CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines

CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines

CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests

CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels

CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.

Note:
All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.

If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4

ACEA

This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).

Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:

A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance

B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance

C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.

Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.

Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.

APPROVALS

Many oils mention various Car Manufacturers on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB, BMW, Ford or Vauxhall but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying top quality oil because of this.

Oil Companies send their oils to OEM’s for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.

Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:

VW – 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00

Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils

MB – 229.1

Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.

BMW – LL98

Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.


FINALLY

Above is the most accurate guidance we can give without going into too much depth however there is one final piece of advice regarding labelling.

Certain statements are made on labels that are meaningless and just marketing hype, here are a few to avoid!

Recommended for use where……………


May be used where the following specifications apply……………


Approved by………………………..(but with no qualification or specification)


Recommended/Approved by (some famous person, these endorsements are paid for)

Racing/Track formula (but with no supporting evidence)

Also be wary of statements like “synthetic blend” if you are looking for a fully synthetic oil as this will merely be a semi-synthetic.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. The cheaper the oil the cheaper the
ingredients, lower the performance levels and older the specs it meets so beware!

[Apache]

No petrol so there is my answer!!!NO!!!! took a while for the penny to drop!!

Actually, it can be 'yes'. Just cos it might say 'diesel' on the bottle doesm't necessarily mean it will be no good for a petrol engine. Read the explanation of oil specs (taken from another forum) from Opie Oils.

[noobysurfer]

This has been discussed before. There are 2 stroke diesels which generate more power per litre than normal diesels. Puting 2 stroke oil in a normal diesel, in too high a ratio, will just cause smoke, I can't see how it would generate more power. There may be cleansing benefits, much like sticking some PS fluid in a tank of fuel?

Yeah thought as much, if it were true we'd all be driving faster surfs!!lol

[noobysurfer]

Thanks lads for your answers

[Tig]

Not wanting to stir up a hornets nest, but.........

I'm wondering why the Surf owners in Oz swear by 'High Ash' oil, such as found in older versions of their 15W40 Castrol J-Max?

Also, exactly WTF does 'High Ash' mean?

[Sancho]

Not wanting to stir up a hornets nest, but.........

I'm wondering why the Surf owners in Oz swear by 'High Ash' oil, such as found in older versions of their 15W40 Castrol J-Max?

Also, exactly WTF does 'High Ash' mean?

All a bit over my head, but the headlines are that higher ash oils need to have more detergent in them to stop them gumming things up, hence they have more detergent in, hence they clean your engine better.

Seeing as you have to change the oil on a surf pretty frequently, I personally wouldn't get too wound up about what goes in.

[tweak'e]

there is a doc around that explains the difference.
its all about how the piston and rings are designed. euro, usa, jap all have different designs which require different oils. its not just about high ash or detergents.

[NiftyNev]

there is a doc around that explains the difference.
its all about how the piston and rings are designed. euro, usa, jap all have different designs which require different oils. its not just about high ash or detergents.

Very true.

Nev.

[Tig]

mobil 1000?

Halfrauds have Mobil 1000 15W40 on offer ATM but I'd prefer to be absolutely sure about using the correct oil....responses to my earlier posis are all very much appreciated BTW.