To Surf or not to Surf, That is the question. etc... etc...

[sadanorakman]

Hi Guys. Saw a great looking 4x4 around eight years ago, stood out from the rest, really cool... Turns out it was a 2nd gen Surf. Couldn't afford one at the time though.

Then discovered there was a 3rd gen with more leg room, wider rear doors, a more sensible tailgate style, and more mechanically competent... Yes please. ...Still a pipe dream at the time though.

Now I can finally afford a 3rd Gen, and have been looking at spending about 12K on a Jap import.

Only thing is, I now understand it has all the same chassis/engine/running gear as a prado/colarado.

After reading such conflicting reports about grey imports, I wonder if am I to risk sinking 12K into one, without really knowing it's mechanical condition, and suffer insurance policy and servicing issues etc... or spend a couple of K more on an original UK colorado that I can crawl all over and get inspected, and that will probably be easier to sell on later. (I would service and repair myself, but Surfs still appear to be a very niche, 'enthusiasts' car when it comes to selling one.

Questions...

1. Is there any real difference between the driving experience of these two beasties?

2. The colarados body looks taller than a surfs... is there much if any difference to driver/passenger comfort or load space between the two? Does anyone have proper measurements of load space/leg room etc or first hand experience of both cars please?

That's the only two question areas... I seriously prefer the styling of the Surf, but am now trying to weigh up the real practicalities of owning such a vehicle as compared to it's bretheren. It would be a long term, every day vehicle for me (6 to 8 years maybe), Used for road work, and gentle off road use. I'm into kayaking and hill walking etc... etc... so the usability of the load space etc is of real importance to me.

I'm so very tempted to go for a surf, but also very good at wasting my money on 'unique' things, and then getting bitten. I can't afford to with this sort of investment!

I'll throw it open for any advice or comments please... they will all be really greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Craig.

[Fish]

Hi Guys. Saw a great looking 4x4 around eight years ago, stood out from the rest, really cool... Turns out it was a 2nd gen Surf. Couldn't afford one at the time though.

Then discovered there was a 3rd gen with more leg room, wider rear doors, a more sensible tailgate style, and more mechanically competent... Yes please. ...Still a pipe dream at the time though.

Now I can finally afford a 3rd Gen, and have been looking at spending about 12K on a Jap import.

Only thing is, I now understand it has all the same chassis/engine/running gear as a prado/colarado.

After reading such conflicting reports about grey imports, I wonder if am I to risk sinking 12K into one, without really knowing it's mechanical condition, and suffer insurance policy and servicing issues etc... or spend a couple of K more on an original UK colorado that I can crawl all over and get inspected, and that will probably be easier to sell on later. (I would service and repair myself, but Surfs still appear to be a very niche, 'enthusiasts' car when it comes to selling one.

Questions...

1. Is there any real difference between the driving experience of these two beasties?

2. The colarados body looks taller than a surfs... is there much if any difference to driver/passenger comfort or load space between the two? Does anyone have proper measurements of load space/leg room etc or first hand experience of both cars please?

That's the only two question areas... I seriously prefer the styling of the Surf, but am now trying to weigh up the real practicalities of owning such a vehicle as compared to it's bretheren. It would be a long term, every day vehicle for me (6 to 8 years maybe), Used for road work, and gentle off road use. I'm into kayaking and hill walking etc... etc... so the usability of the load space etc is of real importance to me.

I'm so very tempted to go for a surf, but also very good at wasting my money on 'unique' things, and then getting bitten. I can't afford to with this sort of investment!

I'll throw it open for any advice or comments please... they will all be really greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Craig.

I can give you the reasons I bought a 3rd gen Surf if it helps:-
Having owned a previous 4x4 from new, spent 13k over 3 years on lease payments on a Musso, and then handing it back to the lease company and having nothing to show for all that brass spent.
All servicing at the main dealers cost a small fortune (need to have dealers stamps for 60 thou mile warranty)
Recon engine at 114k miles, paid for out of pocket.
So I needed something that would be cheaper to buy & run, big enough to carry all my tools and ladders (with a propper back door), be a family taxi at the weekends, but mostly I needed something that would be reliable over the three years that I will keep it, and will do 120k miles and still keep going.
As an official short arse, I didnt want ewt to damn tall to get said ladders on top of either.
After looking at the market options in 4x4 and big estates, it ended up either scorpio estater, Surf 3rd gen, volvo estate (but was v tempted at a T5) or a skooby do legacy estate, all having a reputation of being almost indistructable.
Personaly I like the 4x4 so it was the Surf that won it all round for me, nine months on and over 20 thou miles with only service parts and fuel so far, and I dont regret the choice at all.
True after my last foray off road I have to fit a replacement rear fog light later today befor it goes for its MOT, but thats my only expence that I MUST spend so far in ownership, and it still has better grin factor when its polished up all shinney and you drop over the entry into a steep quarry than anything else on the road.
As for being a 'unique things' I see more Surfs on the road than my official dealer supplied Musso by around 5 to 1.
Dont think you would regret a Surf at all!

Fish

[ship]

Hi Craig,
can,t help you with the differences between the surf/prado/colorado as i,ve only driven the surf, but as for the surf being a "niche" car, maybe it was but not now i think, when i was looking for a surf i found this forum with about 200 odd members (some of them very odd ), now a year later there,s about 2000 members.
If you intend to do your,e own servicing, parts are easy to source and cheap enough (milners, roughtrax etc.), as for insurance, i don,t know about the prado but the surf is reasonably cheap to insure if you shop about.
My son(7yrs) and i have slept in the back of the surf, the whole family of 4 has been camping with all that requires and the surf has just swallowed all the camping gear with room to spare.
Best motor iv,e ever had, would only change it for a 3.0ltr, buy one, i for one don,t think you,ll regret it.

ship

[Elvz]

Hi Craig, The Prado/Colorado is mechanically the same as a 3rd generation Surf.

The Prado/Colorado is taller and has more interior space than a Surf and because the roofline is higher it can be fitted with extra seats. Prados don't handle as well as Surfs because of the higher centre of gravity and they have worse side and rear visibility when parking.

I've never even thought about buying a 3rd generation Surf because I don't like them but I owned a Prado GX for 4 years and it's gone now and not missed very much. The Prado cost me £16K when I bought it in '99 and I don't think that it was a smart decision - I was just lucky that I actually got what I paid for.

[sadanorakman]

Thank you, more please.

Thank you all so far for your comments. More please!!!

[kitesurf_phil]

Being 5'6" tall the Surf was the only (proper) 4x4 that I could hope to own and keep the roof clean. When I set out, I was considering something like the Suburu Forester, Diahatsu FourTrack, SWB Paj, L200, Disco etc. I then saw a Surf and was gobsmacked by the external condition of the car. You could almost eat your dinner off the underside.

I then found the old forum and started asking questions. In hindsight I would have gone for the 3L, but only because of the negative press that the 2.4s get re heads, overheating etc. I have had no such problems and those that have are in the minority.

The Surf is a great daily drive. Tough as old boots. Probably no more thirsty than a comparable 2WD estate. It has loads of room, tows the caravan with ease, tows the other off road project and I can confidently drive it onto beaches, waterlogged campsites, down farm tracks in pursuit of my other hobbies. The dog thinks shes lady muck when she rides in the back. Shes even given up barking at all the other pooches as we go past - nothing to prove now LOL

Go for it. You'll love it!

[Koi]

I just wanted a motor that would take me fishing gear and was a bit more comfortable than my van.
So off I went with a bit of me fishing kit and drove,
Fronterra, 4 years old, noisy half the electrics didn't work and me fishing rod bag wouldn't fit in the back.
Landrover Discovery, 5 years old. Didn't like the seating positon, lots of body roll on corners and engine felt surprisingly lumpy. Once again rod bag wouldn't fit in.
Shogun, 4 years old. Seating positon better than Discovery, cornered like the discovery, lots of body roll and felt unstable on hard cornering. Engine good, but load space rubbish. Two extra seats in the rear, OK they come out but the wheel arches protrude so much into the cargo area its silly and of course once again the rod bag wouldn't fit.
A couple of ford 4x4's, just sat in one and got out the other I drove off the forecourt and back on again.
Then I saw a surf, rod bag fitted so off for a drive. Came back did a bit of haggling, deal done. Good driving position, road holding good, body roll much more limited than the others, oh and it was 12 years old when I bought it. So compared to the 3 or 5 year old motors I had been testing it won for my purposes hands down.

[Gizmo]

Basically this is my first 4x4 vehicle and love it to bits. I have ridden and driven in the Isuzu Trooper 3.1D and apart from the fold away seats and the seating being more traditionally of higher leg I just cannot fault the motor. I spent just under 8500 for a 2nd Gen. Im 33 and the Insurance is £200 less than a WRX Scooby or a Jag 2.5 X-type that I was initially thinking of going for. I would only seriosly think about upgrading to the 3rd Gen for the practicality of the Rear tailgate opening like the estate cars and that they have a differential that can be engaged.

[sadanorakman]

Thank you all again. I certainly appreciate the feedback comparing to Discos etc, as I hate land rovers with a passion. Why? mainly because so many people love them so blindly and wont hear a word against them, when in truth they are appaling unreliable british engineering at its worst!

Koi. I really appreciate your loadspace comparisons... I'm used to driving estate cars, and being able to throw an inflatable double mattress in the back for camping out amongst other things. I find wheel arches on 4x4s intrusive to the rear compartment (although of course necessary), and don't like the high load beds (again necessary!) The best load space for me in a 4x4 would be one that the rear seats can fold down and will combine with the addition of a platform across the inner arches, to create a nice long flat bed/load space, with a gear locker underneath... Does anyone know whether the 3rd gen's anatomy suits this modification? i.e. rear seats fold face down fully flat, and arch height then somewhere near this?

Kite Surf... Would you be into power kiting perchance? The 'lads' and I took this up last year, and having now learnt to master the kite, are experimenting with mountain boards, kite buggies, and next come kite boards (Water based that is) as we are all very very experienced kayakers. (also reasonably experienced sailers and power-boaters).

Please keep my thread growing all... I'm being swayed to the surf...

[Morr]

.... Does anyone know whether the 3rd gen's anatomy suits this modification? i.e. rear seats fold face down fully flat, and arch height then somewhere near this?....

Not entirely sure what you're hoping for here, but the 3rd Gen seats fold in the same manner as the 2nd Gen (and most other cars), i.e. base tilts forwards (hinged at front edge) and the backrest drops forward to lie flat, level with the existing boot floor. Does that help/answer your question ?

[sadanorakman]

Yes thank you.
I didn't expect the seats to go all the way flat with the seat base lifting first... That's a real bonus. I thought the best I would achieve is the seat base staying put, and the seat backs folding forward flat-ish, therefore leaving a drop at the back of them of maybe six inches to the boot floor.
Can anyone give me the width between the wheel arches inside the boot please for a 3rd gen? and rough load length with the rear seat base in its folded up position to the inside of the tailgate.

Thank you.