Advice needed,after my truck was hit.

[sniper]

Hi all, I am after an answer regarding the correct position of my car at a T-junction during a collision. The situation went: I was pulling up at a T-junction to join a main road.There was a car ahead of me positioned in the centre of the road on the dividing line (to the right of the left lane).The car was indicating right and with it leaving the left side of the junction clear (and with me wanting to turn left) I indicated left and puled alongside the other car.However,when the road cleared ahead I pulled out to the left but so did the car to my right! I stopped as soon as her front wing hit the corner of my bumper but she continued to drive which resulted in in her Astra being scraped from front to back wing. She carried on driving but I chased after her and she pulled over just down the road. The woman said sorry straight away and 'didn't realise she hit me'! We exchanged details and her husband came around that night to photograph my car and to give me the insurance details and again said it was her fault and it would be sorted no problem.
However,after 3 days of them not contacting their insurance company their insurers contacted them and the outcome is that they are now disputing liability.
There are a few things which would have lead to this decision,one thing is me foolishly mentioning I have got a £500 xs and the fact I have been very nice and pleasent about it all which they are mistaking as a weakness (how wrong they are!)
Luckily I have since managed to track down a van driver who witnessed it all and is willing give a statement as he believes I was in the right (the other driver is not aware of this yet).
So my question is this: although the junction widens to (easily) accomodate two vehicles should I have been expected to wait for the numpty to clear the junction first despite her car being positioned to turn right and indicating the same and leaving ample room on her left for other vehicles.
I have looked in the latest highway code but it does not show this situation.
It was how I was taught to drive years ago and everyone else appears to do the same at that and other similar size junctions.
I am keen to get a definate legal answer so I can not take any rubbish from the insurers and get my xs back. Sorry for long thread.Thanks

[silva surfa]

Hi all, I am after an answer regarding the correct position of my car at a T-junction during a collision. The situation went: I was pulling up at a T-junction to join a main road.There was a car ahead of me positioned in the centre of the road on the dividing line (to the right of the left lane).The car was indicating right and with it leaving the left side of the junction clear (and with me wanting to turn left) I indicated left and puled alongside the other car.However,when the road cleared ahead I pulled out to the left but so did the car to my right! I stopped as soon as her front wing hit the corner of my bumper but she continued to drive which resulted in in her Astra being scraped from front to back wing. She carried on driving but I chased after her and she pulled over just down the road. The woman said sorry straight away and 'didn't realise she hit me'! We exchanged details and her husband came around that night to photograph my car and to give me the insurance details and again said it was her fault and it would be sorted no problem.
However,after 3 days of them not contacting their insurance company their insurers contacted them and the outcome is that they are now disputing liability.
There are a few things which would have lead to this decision,one thing is me foolishly mentioning I have got a £500 xs and the fact I have been very nice and pleasent about it all which they are mistaking as a weakness (how wrong they are!)
Luckily I have since managed to track down a van driver who witnessed it all and is willing give a statement as he believes I was in the right (the other driver is not aware of this yet).
So my question is this: although the junction widens to (easily) accomodate two vehicles should I have been expected to wait for the numpty to clear the junction first despite her car being positioned to turn right and indicating the same and leaving ample room on her left for other vehicles.
I have looked in the latest highway code but it does not show this situation.
It was how I was taught to drive years ago and everyone else appears to do the same at that and other similar size junctions.
I am keen to get a definate legal answer so I can not take any rubbish from the insurers and get my xs back. Sorry for long thread.Thanks

if you send me a pm,i will email this to me dad he was a senior instructer for northumbria police driver improvement scheme,he will no the ins n outs of this

[sketty]

seems to me that the lady cut you up by driving around the outside of you when turning. this is obviosly her fault. get your whiplash claim in striaght away because they are being awkward about what as happened.

[sniper]

if you send me a pm,i will email this to me dad he was a senior instructer for northumbria police driver improvement scheme,he will no the ins n outs of this

Excellent,thanks silver surfa.Sounds like just the advice I need.Will pm you shortly as got to get kids from school right now.Cheers.

[sniper]

seems to me that the lady cut you up by driving around the outside of you when turning. this is obviosly her fault. get your whiplash claim in striaght away because they are being awkward about what as happened.

Already admitted no whiplash,and the truck weighs more than twice the weight of the Astra so didn't hardly notice it.Which is the only reason I have the beast-to keep my 2 and 4 year old kids safer from numpty drivers!

[TOYOTATONY]

Hi all, I am after an answer regarding the correct position of my car at a T-junction during a collision. The situation went: I was pulling up at a T-junction to join a main road.There was a car ahead of me positioned in the centre of the road on the dividing line (to the right of the left lane).The car was indicating right and with it leaving the left side of the junction clear (and with me wanting to turn left) I indicated left and puled alongside the other car.However,when the road cleared ahead I pulled out to the left but so did the car to my right! I stopped as soon as her front wing hit the corner of my bumper but she continued to drive which resulted in in her Astra being scraped from front to back wing. She carried on driving but I chased after her and she pulled over just down the road. The woman said sorry straight away and 'didn't realise she hit me'! We exchanged details and her husband came around that night to photograph my car and to give me the insurance details and again said it was her fault and it would be sorted no problem.
However,after 3 days of them not contacting their insurance company their insurers contacted them and the outcome is that they are now disputing liability.
There are a few things which would have lead to this decision,one thing is me foolishly mentioning I have got a £500 xs and the fact I have been very nice and pleasent about it all which they are mistaking as a weakness (how wrong they are!)
Luckily I have since managed to track down a van driver who witnessed it all and is willing give a statement as he believes I was in the right (the other driver is not aware of this yet).
So my question is this: although the junction widens to (easily) accomodate two vehicles should I have been expected to wait for the numpty to clear the junction first despite her car being positioned to turn right and indicating the same and leaving ample room on her left for other vehicles.
I have looked in the latest highway code but it does not show this situation.
It was how I was taught to drive years ago and everyone else appears to do the same at that and other similar size junctions.
I am keen to get a definate legal answer so I can not take any rubbish from the insurers and get my xs back. Sorry for long thread.Thanks

All of us may have an opinion on this but, playing devil's advocate here, we were not witness to the incident and any comments made are purely of the 'armchair solicitor' variety unless a Solicitor specialising in road traffic accidents is on this forum.

You need to seek proper legal advice!


The only comment I would make is that from what you say, she drove away from the scene of an accident. This should have prompted you to get her reg no. if possible and write down all other details you can recall at the time and phone the police immediately.

Ain't hindsight great?!

[Nostromo]

The only comment I would make is that from what you say, she drove away from the scene of an accident.

She did leave the scene of an accident which technically she should not have done and yes most people do pull to the left of a lane to turn left when the person in front is waiting to turn right. however there is only one lane and technically there should be single file traffic otherwise It could be said that you were overtaking on the inside.
Never discuss an accident with those involved. It is down to the insurers to argue the toss. Never admit to anything, just present the facts. If you are in an accident where the third party admits to being at fault, it is odds on that they will change their mind once the shock has worn off so dont rely on anything they say or the opinions of witnesses as they also change their mind once they realise that thaey dont realy want to get involved.

Not to sure how she managed to scrape along your bumber when pulling away if you didnt scrape along her with your bumber while pulling along side.

[Koi]

Leaving the scene of an accident:
Hard to make stick if she claims she ddint realise she hit you, you have to prove she left the scene knowing she had been in an accident. In your account you quote 'she said she didn't realise she had hit you'.

Indicating is not in its self law that you have to turn the way you are indicating. Indicating means it is my intention to turn the way you are indicating, does not mean you have to.
Although it could be said if you change your mind without consideration for other users driving with undue care and attention could prevail.


I think you scenario would go more along the lines of driving with undue care and attention.

If you have a witness to confirm your side of events this should add strength to your claim. Although I have the feeling this might end up knock for knock, I hope it doesn't.

[Koi]

Leaving the scene of an accident:
Hard to make stick if she claims she ddint realise she hit you, you have to prove she left the scene knowing she had been in an accident. In your account you quote 'she said she didn't realise she had hit you'.

Indicating is not in its self law that you have to turn the way you are indicating. Indicating means it is my intention to turn the way you are indicating, does not mean you have to.
Although it could be said if you change your mind without consideration for other users driving with undue care and attention could prevail.


I think you scenario would go more along the lines of driving with undue care and attention.

As for undertaking, if the other car is stationary and indicating right and providng there is room to do so you may pass to the left of the car.

From memory I think there is four circumstances where you can undertake:

1. Slow moving traffic e.g. lane 3 of Mway brakes hard and you in lane 2 actually pass him on his nearside = ok.

2. If you want to turn left and the car on your offside is stationary.

3. When the car on your offside is waiting to turn right and you pass by on his nearside because you wish to go straight on.

4. In a one way street - but not a dual carriageway.

But even with the above if you do any of these and depeding how you did it, it could or may be deemed you did it wrecklessly or with undue care.


If you have a witness to confirm your side of events this should add strength to your claim. Although I have the feeling this might end up knock for knock, I hope it doesn't.

[TOYOTATONY]

Quote from Koi.

[/quote]As for undertaking, if the other car is stationary and indicating right and providng there is room to do so you may pass to the left of the car.

From memory I think there is four circumstances where you can undertake:

1. Slow moving traffic e.g. lane 3 of Mway brakes hard and you in lane 2 actually pass him on his nearside = ok.

2. If you want to turn left and the car on your offside is stationary.

3. When the car on your offside is waiting to turn right and you pass by on his nearside because you wish to go straight on.

4. In a one way street - but not a dual carriageway.

But even with the above if you do any of these and depeding how you did it, it could or may be deemed you did it wrecklessly or with undue care.


If you have a witness to confirm your side of events this should add strength to your claim. Although I have the feeling this might end up knock for knock, I hope it doesn't.[/quote]

I have come across the question of undertaking before but, just to make sure, I'm not talking cobblers, I've just spoken to my local Police, Traffic Division. Here's what they had to say:

There is currently no specific law to prohibit undertaking on the highways of Britain. They emphasised that great care should be taken in doing so and must be carried out with extreme care and caution. If an accident occurs as a result of an undertaking manouvre by a vehicle, the driver may be charged with driving without due care & attention or in extreme cases, reckless driving. Finally they said that undertaking, whilst not illegal in itself, it is not recommended by the Police.

[Nostromo]

There is currently no specific law to prohibit undertaking on the highways of Britain. They emphasised that great care should be taken in doing so and must be carried out with extreme care and caution. If an accident occurs as a result of an undertaking manouvre by a vehicle, the driver may be charged with driving without due care & attention or in extreme cases, reckless driving. Finally they said that undertaking, whilst not illegal in itself, it is not recommended by the Police.

Thats some good info that we could all benefit from. i was convinced that undertaking was illegal.

[sniper]

Quote from Koi.

As for undertaking, if the other car is stationary and indicating right and providng there is room to do so you may pass to the left of the car.

From memory I think there is four circumstances where you can undertake:

1. Slow moving traffic e.g. lane 3 of Mway brakes hard and you in lane 2 actually pass him on his nearside = ok.

2. If you want to turn left and the car on your offside is stationary.

3. When the car on your offside is waiting to turn right and you pass by on his nearside because you wish to go straight on.

4. In a one way street - but not a dual carriageway.

But even with the above if you do any of these and depeding how you did it, it could or may be deemed you did it wrecklessly or with undue care.


If you have a witness to confirm your side of events this should add strength to your claim. Although I have the feeling this might end up knock for knock, I hope it doesn't.[/quote]

I have come across the question of undertaking before but, just to make sure, I'm not talking cobblers, I've just spoken to my local Police, Traffic Division. Here's what they had to say:

There is currently no specific law to prohibit undertaking on the highways of Britain. They emphasised that great care should be taken in doing so and must be carried out with extreme care and caution. If an accident occurs as a result of an undertaking manouvre by a vehicle, the driver may be charged with driving without due care & attention or in extreme cases, reckless driving. Finally they said that undertaking, whilst not illegal in itself, it is not recommended by the Police.[/QUOTE]
Hi thanks for advice.I did everything I could to check it was safe by the signals and positioning of the other car and also by making sure there was a large enough gap for my car.If what I did was wrong then the junction should be straight all the way to the end to enable only ever one vehicle through at a time (as some junctions are). I have just been up to the same junction sat in traffic and watched 3 cars do exactly as I did (pull out around to the left-not get car bashed!) whilst a car is waiting to turn right.If the junction didn't work like this then the roads would be far slower moving.

[gwh200]

Hi,
sorry to hear of this accident. As mentioned before, get some proper legal advice.
But also bear in mind, that the other party has already admitted liability.

[sniper]

Hi,
sorry to hear of this accident. As mentioned before, get some proper legal advice.
But also bear in mind, that the other party has already admitted liability.

Hi and thanks,I have contacted the CAB and they are finding the legal view. I was directed to them by the AA website for advice,I thought that the AA had their own legal dept for members but it it doesn't look like it. I have legal cover on top of my policy but didn't wan't to go through them yet as I have nothing in writing to state what my fault in this is supposed be. Its possible the woman may say she was driving down the road past the junction when I pulled out into her-as the damage on both could look like that. As at this stage the driver does not know I have tracked down the van driver witness that drove through the scene as it happened.

[sniper]

[ATTACH]27986[/ATTACH]
view of space to left at junction when viewed from car positioned to turn right.

[ATTACH]27985[/ATTACH]
car on left using junction as I did.(The car on right is pulling up to lines as the car in front of it has just pulled away and so is set back from give way lines at time of photo)