de Menezes - open verdict

[Apache]

Morning Gra. makes a change over the usual "what shocks should I buy?", "Why does my 2.4 feel sluggish on 35" mud tyres?" type threads doesn't it?

Bob, dont look so sad. I am happy to bet a million quid that you wont get blown up by terrorists this year. Enjoy Christmas, and forget the scaremongering!

[Predictable Bob]

Don't worry - I only lose sleep over serious things (And the odd over indulgence in the curry field)

Terrorism is at it's most effective when you don't see it coming, if it's constantly in the news you actually become acclimatised to it and it just becomes part of your everyday life. Those that are old enough just have to go back to the early 70's, life in London carried on as normal despite the best efforts of the IRA.

By contrast, when the IRA changed their strategy they were far more effective with random strikes at the City, national infrastructure and individuals away from NI itself - it was this that was the catalyst for Tony B Liars capitulation

[Apache]

I'd disagree slightly Bob.

Terrorism has been effective in the UK, because without lifting a finger since the bus / tube bombs, they've got a large chunk of the population crapping themselves and looking over their shoulder all the time. They've got billions of pounds being spent on anti-terrorism measures where that money could have been spent within, say, the health service. Terrorists dont need to blow stuff up to be effective.

[Sancho]

By contrast, when the IRA changed their strategy they were far more effective with random strikes at the City, national infrastructure and individuals away from NI itself - it was this that was the catalyst for Tony B Liars capitulation

Going slightly off topic, but keeping the thread; what capitulation?

[biosurf]

i think really you just have to look at exactly what the papers say to see the falsehood within their own assumptions.

the papers say:

1. You can find instructions how to make bombs easily on the internet
2. You can buy the ingredients to make these bombs easily in chemists and other sorts of household stores
3. There are scores of radicalised people throughout the country who wish to cause us and our loved ones harm


this simply doesnt work, as if all the above are true surely our lives would have a constant soundtrack of explosions.
thats unless you assume that the anti terrorism units manage to stop all these radicalised people in their tracks which would mean an almost Minoroty Report style of psychic policing as surely there are enough of 3. (according to the Mail et al) to ensure that some would be people working on their own, or avid fans of Spooks who would control their comms to evade pick up.

The nature of guerilla terrorist attacks is surely that they are incredibly hard to monitor let along stop, so by my reckoning if there are so few attacks it must prove that the 'war on terror' is an incredibly media puffed concept?

I work in central London coming through mainline stations 5 days a week and I cant say its a worry any more than a train derailing through leaves being two deep on the tracks (in fact thats more of a concern)


Now, whats that ticking noise.....?

[MattF]

I may be being naive here but I find it difficult to believe that a police officer would have the training to fire into a targets head in that manner, especially whilst he is being restrained by an officer (Hotel 3), but a gentleman from Hereford would.

Nothing like letting your imagination run riot. Consider the circumstances. Where else would one aim?

[MattF]

Hey Matt, am I going daft or what, I am sure that is more than once you have agreed with me without any verbal or insults lately.....I know it is the season of goodwill and all that but hey?

I only disagree when someone is, (in my opinion), wrong.

[Apache]

Nothing like letting your imagination run riot. Consider the circumstances. Where else would one aim?

B0llocks!

No, not your reply...

[MattF]

B0llocks!

No, not your reply...

Sadist.

[Apache]

The nature of guerilla terrorist attacks is surely that they are incredibly hard to monitor let along stop, so by my reckoning if there are so few attacks it must prove that the 'war on terror' is an incredibly media puffed concept?

Precisely. But it's been 'puffed up' for reasons you and I can merely guess at.

I, and I'm sure many of you technically minded folk can think of several ways to create chaos and loss of life with relatively few inexpensive and common items plus a little easily gleaned knowledge, and not all of it involves anything as inelegant as explosions. However, I dont really spend long thinking about it, nor do I feel any need to.

As you say, either a) there really isn't that many people wanting to create chaos out there, or b) anti-terrorism policies manage to forsee with almost crystal ball-like clarity, almost every single attempt!

I think answer 'a' is the most likely.

[Apache]

Sadist.

Well that would stop me! A swift knee in the same location has stopped me in my tracks before now!

[MattF]

I, and I'm sure many of you technically minded folk can think of several ways to create chaos and loss of life with relatively few inexpensive and common items plus a little easily gleaned knowledge, and not all of it involves anything as inelegant as explosions.

And therein lies the true power of terrorism, in any of it's guises. Potential to cause harm is pretty much unnecessary, as long as it gives that illusion. Peoples minds create the rest of the problem.

[RodLeach]

"Why does my 2.4 feel sluggish on 35" mud tyres?" type threads doesn't it?

Ahem... we've not had one of them!

[div3r]

Nothing like letting your imagination run riot. Consider the circumstances. Where else would one aim?

I will admit to having an imagination, but never in my wildest dreams could I imagine a situation where British Police could shoot an innocent man seven times in the face whilst he was minding his own business going to work. But that’s what effectively happened, and we didn’t imagine it.