GLASS / Green Lane Discussion

[MattF]

no, silly, they changed the name to "Vehicle Excise Duty"... was a tax for using the road, now a tax for owning a car!!... whatever next?... WINDOW TAX??.... d'oh!

Was wondering about that, for that very reason, just the other day. What actually pays for the maintenance of public highways now then?

[da SLUG man]

Was wondering about that, for that very reason, just the other day. What actually pays for the maintenance of public highways now then?

erm... highways agency does the motorways...

all the other roeads get left with big pot holes!

[dieselboy]

no, silly, they changed the name to "Vehicle Excise Duty"... was a tax for using the road, now a tax for owning a car!!... whatever next?... WINDOW TAX??.... d'oh!

whats left to tax? they have stamp duty..
they have inheritance tax so that old people cant even pass on their hard earned money to their loved ones..
inheritance tax is a joke.

[MudSurfer]

I've been a member for about 3 years - well, renewed twice after first subscription. I use the wayfinder database to track lanes, and update it too - and as an area person I can get asked (informally) to check routes out to see if there are being messed up (did this a while back Ufton to Long Itchington, and moved a tree)

Have a look at this lot too - www.crag-uk.org - I've been a member there for a while too, we are off to repair part of the Wayfarer on the 23rd - the bit where the sleepers are - so if anyone has any old sleepers they don't want, let me know....

I'll put up a separate post about CRAG as I want to start recruiting local members...

[Apache]

What's happening to the bit up by the monument Andy?

When we were there in may I noticed some tw@t had rutted the grass bank (where we park up) to a depth of about 18"!

I'll join CRAG too. Hey, I'm a born 'joiner'

[MudSurfer]

What's happening to the bit up by the monument Andy?

When we were there in may I noticed some tw@t had rutted the grass bank (where we park up) to a depth of about 18"!

I'll join CRAG too. Hey, I'm a born 'joiner'

We will look at that too - it's a ###### disgrace what they've done up there, so we may try and get some posts put in or something - we'll see what time we have left.

There is a Gloucestershire and Worcestershire branch of CRAG, look for Mark Margetts when you join, as I think he is the area rep...

[Apache]

I have some photos from May if you want them.

[dieselboy]

this GLASS membership is starting to look more appealing.

i would like to do what i can to help maintain my local area - dorking, leatherhead, banstead etc..

last time i was up in dorking i was waiting for a group of suzukis to clear so i could carry on, and a couple of them were driving exactly where they shouldnt. then one of them got stuck and got irate. no way i was pulling him out.
they were borderline pikeys tbh

[MudSurfer]

I have some photos from May if you want them.

Yes please Andy - send them to me and I'll forward them to CRAG so we can get something done.

[Apache]

I'll stick them on my photobucket album tonight.

[24Seven]

so if anyone has any old sleepers they don't want, let me know....

I maybe able to get some old sleepers, it's just getting them for here to North Wales that is a problem?

[biosurf]

I joined GLASS a little while ago and (before I get flamed) I am very glad they exist (wouldn't have joined otherwise) but having worked in the charity sector most of my working life they remind me a great deal of a small charity just finding its feet i.e. good organisation with a website which doesn’t indicate very easily what they actually do (i.e. to a person having a casual look) and they don't really seem to have much of a PR machine going (i.e. before being told about them I hadn’t heard about them but I had certainly heard of the anti groups who seem to shout a lot louder) for example it wouldn’t hurt for them to task they’re area reps with being members of 4x4 forums (which they probably are anyway) and giving the GLASS official line on occasion i.e. after Top Gears ‘greenlaning’ stunt it would have been very valuable to have had GLASS let their ‘forum reps’ have an email to copy off to all the main forums along the lines of ‘Top Gear, last night…the GLASS view of this is…. We have written as an organization to the BBC, saying…. We encourage all other greenlane users to do the same etc. etc..’ This would have been a very powerful but easy step to take and would probably have gained them a few new members in the process.

What are everyone’s thoughts on the below? (bear with me and keep in mind that I'm wanting to make this as anti-friendly as possible and make members of GLASS look good to the general public as the anti brigade always get heard the most as they tend to shout the loudest. As Apache often says, it wouldn't be surprising if we don't have any lanes left to drive within the next five years)

Just an idea…..
Its clear that like with many things theres a minority who screw it up for the majority i.e. those people who go off the lanes/drive them when they are sodden and likely to get chewed up/ leave torn off bits of their motor lying around/ drive aggressively past other byway users etc.
GLASS (and no doubt the other organisations covering greenlanes) have a code of conduct and do advise evidence being gathered about any incidences such as this.

What if GLASS really pushed this active 'preservation of ancient byways' as being their 'unique selling point'? All members could be asked to ensure that they are aware of the codes of conduct and that they also have the number of the area rep on them so if they see any 'live' instances of lane misuse they can photograph it (if possible) and report it there and then to their area rep who, for example could have a specific contact within the local plod who can (if they decide to) send out a car to grab the offender at the end of the lane.
I'm not saying this would a) happen often or b) the plod would carry it out but then the onus of inaction would be on them and GLASS would have done their bit.

If this could be coupled with the fact that GLASS members are tasked with 'maintaining the ancient integrity of the lanes for all users' (as many members already do, not just on the organised lane management days) this could be shown as being valid as a vehicle can carry the tools to remove overhanging branches, has the capacity to move fallen trees from blocking the byway, can carry spades for filling in ruts, has space to take litter away etc. etc. therefore preserving the access to the byway for walkers, cyclists, horseriders and other users'
They could throw in some rudimentry guidelines about how to do this 'responsible clearing' i.e. don’t disturb birds nests, chop down protected trees, pick wild orchids etc. etc. This could start showing responsible laners as being of benefit not only to the lane but to other lane users.

If they played it right and positioned themselves as a membership organisation for creating a group of responsible users tasked with maintaining the byway network for all users and cracking down on irresponsible users they could look towards calling their members something like ‘Byway Wardens’ giving them a sticker to match to display on their vehicle and really try to show that we are not only responsible in that we don’t damage the byways but that we also try and prevent others form doing so.

Taking it further they could approach organizations like the Campaign to Protect Rural England etc. for support as even if just one of these organisations went for it and supported GLASS in what they were doing it would give them a lot more clout with the anti groups and with the press. You could even go so far as approaching some of the anti groups,and asking if they have any members who would consider buying a green lane friendly vehicle (Whatever the most ‘eco friendly’ one is) and joining GLASS to fight those that abuse the byways! Again they probably (definitely) won’t, but just the act of inviting them may put them on the back foot and maybe make them view GLASS as a different animal whereas at the moment most antis will see them as being the voice of the mad/damaging/murdering/environment-hating 4x4 driving fiend.

This would also make GLASS's position even stronger with councils who probably don’t want to spend any money maintaining byways for horses/cyclists/vehicles or anyone if they can avoid it and would probably welcome an organization that took some of this burden away from them. At the moment, even if they TRO the lanes they must still maintain them for other users. If they know that by TRO’ing them they will be removing the one group of users who actually reduce the amount of funds and time they have to commit to them, they may think twice.

As I said bear in mind here I’m trying to see it from the negative view we have from the antis and from all those that are anti by default i.e. a lot of the general public, walkers, cyclists etc. etc. who will all say ‘yep that’s probably a good idea’ if it is ever suggested to shut all BOATs to any sort of vehicular traffic.


Before anyone says it I’m not trying to introduce GLASS byway Nazi’s to police the greenlanes but as a group of people who internally condemn those who to destroy the lanes, it wouldn’t hurt to let the outside world know that that’s the case too. If the occasional report of a lane abuser goes to plod and is reported a such to the general public it will show us as caring about byways and if the police don’t act on it then maybe the anti’s may focus a bit more on them and a bit less on us law-abiding, greenlane code following bunch of shiney (muddy) people we really are.
Also I’m not trying to pander to the anti’s at all more just give them a real picture of the majority of greenlane users who appreciate the same(ish) things that they do (albeit with air-con). I’m guessing that a lot of the passive antis aren’t even aware that byways are roads just without tarmac

Just looked at the length of my post and see that I may have rambled (bad pun not intended ahem.)

Whadgoo think?

[MudSurfer]

That sounds good, and I'd like to borrow some of it for CRAG too if I can....

GLASS do a little PR, but like you said, it's not nearly enough, and their site does take a little rooting around until you find what they are really there for.

I'm an advocate of having area reps numbers, and as an area rep for CRAG, I have the local police on speeddial, just is case I need them. I've also got contacts in the local council, and am extending these to cover a lot more boroughs....

Great post mate, took me a while to read it, but good stuff!!!

[Apache]

Bio, an excellent post, one of the finest I've seen here for some time!

[Bogus]

Is road tax still road tax though?

I think thats a rhetorical question. but I,ll rabbit on anyway. Its not road tax, its Vehicle excise duty and simply goes in to the common government pot, which is increasingly being spent on snooping and surveillance of the populace leaving little behind for roads and public services

Bogus