Modified or original

[karl higgs]

with regards to SHIP,who replied to my question concerning my 92 2.4 ssrx cylinder head,he mentioned that I'd be able to tell if the head was the modified (updated head) as apposed to original head by certain numbers or markings in the head castings,anybody out there know what I should be looking for,would be appreciated very much.

[Guest]

with regards to SHIP,who replied to my question concerning my 92 2.4 ssrx cylinder head,he mentioned that I'd be able to tell if the head was the modified (updated head) as apposed to original head by certain numbers or markings in the head castings,anybody out there know what I should be looking for,would be appreciated very much.

Mine has the casting number 22222. Not sure if this references anything.

Cheers

[whitespider]

Had my head changed last week, my new head has a large 2L followed by numbers stamped on it- have no idea what this means.

Interested to read that someone on the forum reckons there is no such thing as a modified head just a new one. This makes real sense. At exactly the same time I changed the surf head my car head went also, this was a rover 414 Preg. Apparently this is very common on rovers. Now rovers are more common than surfs and no modified head exists for them, only a refit which will last another 80,000miles, so probably outlast the rest of the car. Maybe this is the case with surfs and may explain why there is NO recognisable difference between them.

The idea that a major car company would provide genuine modified heads for old imports does seem a bit sus.
Has anyone asked Toyota or The Head Centre?

Of course I may be just paranoid, and into conspiracy theories.
Who knows?

[Elvz]

Toyota like every other car manufacturer on the planet has absolutely no interest in something they produced over 10 years ago and they certainly wouldn't spend money on solving problems that they can just walk away from.

Those of you that have bought spare parts from a main dealer ought to know that genuine Toyota cylinder heads would be a little more expensive than the £500 or so that that heads sell for at the moment. I think that most of the 'modified' heads that are sold in the UK are probably made by companies like Pro Topline Ltd. a NZ based specialist in cast metal components which has a very large share of the Japanese engine spares market

[Koi]

Had my head changed last week, my new head has a large 2L followed by numbers stamped on it- have no idea what this means.

Interested to read that someone on the forum reckons there is no such thing as a modified head just a new one. This makes real sense. At exactly the same time I changed the surf head my car head went also, this was a rover 414 Preg. Apparently this is very common on rovers. Now rovers are more common than surfs and no modified head exists for them, only a refit which will last another 80,000miles, so probably outlast the rest of the car. Maybe this is the case with surfs and may explain why there is NO recognisable difference between them.

The idea that a major car company would provide genuine modified heads for old imports does seem a bit sus.
Has anyone asked Toyota or The Head Centre?

Of course I may be just paranoid, and into conspiracy theories.
Who knows?

You can't see the modification its internal. Apparently on the batch of heads that was under local recall in Japan the waterways were to near the valve guides. The modified heads as they are reffered to have had the water ways moved more centrally within the head, so from the outside you can't see no difference.
Bearing in mind, well mine anyway is 14 years old, so the modified head as its reffered to has been in production for probably 12 years or so. So your Rover is different perhaps its just a trait with Rovers and it was a design fault with the waterways on the Surf head, so Toyota re-designed a small batch of heads to cure the problems.
So the only problem you will run into again is if you have had the head stitched/repaired or bought a recon/stitched head, then the problem will re-occur.
Recalls are common from all manufactures, if the recall only effects a couple of thousand motors then manufactures are more likely to send out letters to the cars fitted with the problem item. This way it stops it going out in the press and doesn't create bad press for the manufacture.
Vauxhall around N & P plates Calibra had a big problem with the tension pulley on the cam belts, it was made of plastic and disintegrated. Now vauxhall never came out with a public recall just repaired the motors as they broke down under a recall scheme.
There is a web site for recalls on motors, you will be amazed at how many recalls there have been and from what manufacture, I bet you didn't know about 10% of any of the recalls. They only need to go public with a recall if it is a safety issue, then it goes out worldwide to capture as many as possible.
So you see the head you just bought (if new) could have been modified many years ago to solve the design fault back then. Just because its called a modified head doesn't mean its just been modified this was a problem with the heads many years ago and is beginning to be blown out off all proportion, these motors are 10 plus years old with no service history and a dealer that says only one previous owner, yeah right (unless you get the documentation to say so). But you know most people accept this buy the motor because they love them, they are spotless, low mileage etc etc.
Now if that had been say an escort on the forecourt you would run a mile, a 12 year old escort, no service history, one owner, 60,000 miles immacualte condition. You wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, you would say its been clocked, resprayed etc etc but the same age Surf that may have sat around for months waiting to be shiped with the same description you can't wait to part with your cash jump in & drive it home with the biggest grin on your face
that lasts for weeks, months even.
So remember is the head problem really that bad, next time you see a Surf is it a 2.4 or 3.0, chances are it will be a 2.4. With more 2.4's on the road it will seem as if though they have problems, bit like saying you see loads of Escorts broken down but not many McClaren F1's.
I for one did have my head go, I replaced it, so what thats motoring, life, its 14 years old what did I expect trouble free motoring from a 14 year old imported motor with no history. No, not really I live in the real world, tell you what had the head replaced then a few months later had it MOt'd and it flew through, can't be that bad for a 14 year old motor.

Gonna add head, cracked, recall etc to the list of ban words on the forum

[Guest]

Here here.

Plus, once they've modified the design, any manufacturer making the heads under licence will use the new design, no manufacturer would allow two different tooling sets to be in use either by itself or any subcontracted manufacturers.

Also a large percentage of the 2L series engines were manufactured by Daihatsu under licence for Toyota. It would be interesting to see if there is any link between the ones the crack and who made them. It may not have been just a design fault, could also have been a manufacturing fault.

Cheers

[wibblywobbly]

I think that there are several things to consider here:

1. Freelanders. The engine is a generic design, and the problem was steel head gaskets sealed with sticky stuff that wasn't applied properly. It breaks down after 70,000 miles and the coolant wrecks the motors. The engines then have to be replaced.

2. The Surf recall was twofold:

a. The head gaskets were ok, but, they were made of a material that was vulnerable to non-toyota coolant. People changed the coolant, the gasket got eaten away, the coolant seeped out, and the heads went bang.

b. The heads had an inherent design fault that was affected by the above fault. The internal cooling channels were too close to the head surface. If the head overheated then it expanded and cracked. If the gasket let the coolant out, this wrecked the head.

So......Toyota redesigned the heads and the gaskets and recalled the Surfs. This only affected a relatively short production run, and the chassis numbers are on the web (there is a link on here somewhere).

What has also been mentioned is that a lot of these trucks are a minimum of 10 years old. A Surf will have had one of two lives for every day of those 2 years.

a. Taken off road and been given a roasting.
b. Stuck in heavy traffic all its life.

Depending on owner maintenance, the trucks may not have been serviced. Think about it, would you take a 10 year old truck with only scrap value to a Toyota dealer for a service...nope...neither would I. (Jap cars are worthless after 10 years due to their MOT, that is why we get them cheap).

We therefore have to accept that we are buying vehicles that are old, abused and badly maintained. Changing the coolant on a car was never a priority on any vehicle that I ever owned before this one? So even if you have a minter, there is a high chance that the cooling channels are clogged, and even a good head willl crack if it overheats. It isn't rocket science, the Surf is just a totally average assembly of mechanical parts that will fail if they are not properly cooled and lubricated.

Nuff said, off me soapbox now...and I should have mine back from the garage by the end of this week...unless the head has gone?

Cheers

Rob G

Here here.

Plus, once they've modified the design, any manufacturer making the heads under licence will use the new design, no manufacturer would allow two different tooling sets to be in use either by itself or any subcontracted manufacturers.

Also a large percentage of the 2L series engines were manufactured by Daihatsu under licence for Toyota. It would be interesting to see if there is any link between the ones the crack and who made them. It may not have been just a design fault, could also have been a manufacturing fault.

Cheers

[whitespider]

OOOOH- just thought I would ask a question, nay propose a theory

All these answers seem sound.
I am very aware of the fact I bought a 11 year old car, imported etc,etc.
But hey when you get stung it still hurts.
In fact this notion of 'modified' or non modified doesn't make much difference when you have to put something on it. I guess I don't really care where it came from.
You guys are well into this and thats for the benefit of all of us, but please bear in mind that new surfers will ask the same old questions.

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
Cheers Ronnie.

[marky]

if you bought a uk vehicle in the same condition & mileage it would probably be around 4 - 5 years old & twice the price so in the long run i feel that we still got a bargain

[gemini]

We therefore have to accept that we are buying vehicles that are old, abused and badly maintained

wibblywobbly,
looking at the pic of your surf under the bonnet this might apply to yours, mine is certainly not like that, and neither are alot of others on here, majority of them have been well serviced and looked after

[da SLUG man]

We therefore have to accept that we are buying vehicles that are old, abused and badly maintained

wibblywobbly,
looking at the pic of your surf under the bonnet this might apply to yours, mine is certainly not like that, and neither are alot of others on here, majority of them have been well serviced and looked after

who's to say that? they've all been in japan, and i don't know of any that come with a geniune service history!


p.s.... the rover thing is the head gaskets that go (on the K series engine i think)... it's a great engine though!

[gemini]

who's to say that? they've all been in japan, and i don't know of any that come with a geniune service history!


p.s.... the rover thing is the head gaskets that go (on the K series engine i think)... it's a great engine though!

you dont need s/h tell if a motor has been looked after & serviced