Airplane on a Conveyor conundrum

[Slugsie]

exactly.

if you drive away from tescos in a straight line, you move away from tescos correct?
so, if you are travelling at 20mph away from tescos, then tescos is travelling 20mph away from you correct?

where is GWH ? i think he will know exactly how to explain how what i am saying is true

Yes, if you travel away from Tescos at 20mph, the you can also say that Tescos is travelling away from you at 20mph. But that has no relevance to this situation. To make it relevant, you need to add a second person who stands there and doesn't move. It then becomes you travelling away from the third person at 20mph, but Tescos doesn't travel away from them at all. The original problem states that the conveyor does move relative to the fixed ground (i.e. the 2nd person). Thus if you are moving at 20mph, then so is Tesco (let's not get into the fact that a building can't move OK???) but in the opposite direction, so you now have a relative speed of 40mph.

[dieselboy]

Are they entirely ornamental then?

ay?

how the hell can air come out the back of those engines, do a 180 turn, go round the front of the wing, do another 180 turn, pass over the wings and out the back of the plane.

or do your planes go backwards

[dieselboy]

i got a feeling im going to make enemies on this thread..
sorry, i dont want to do that.

[Chillitt]

ay?

how the hell can air come out the back of those engines, do a 180 turn, go round the front of the wing, do another 180 turn, pass over the wings and out the back of the plane.

or do your planes go backwards

If they position of the engines reletive to the wings is so important here, why doesn't it matter every other time a plane tries to take off?

[Slugsie]

so explain it then.
explain that the conveyor wont be moving at all, and why.

OK, I admit, I can't explain why the conveyor won't be moving. The reason I can't explain that is that that is not the case. The conveyor is moving. If the conveyor wasn't moving, then it might as well not be there, so you end up with an aircraft sat on a runway taking off - exactly as hundreds of airplanes do day in day out. But the fact is that even with he conveyor moving it has not real effect on the take-off.

[Chillitt]

i got a feeling im going to make enemies on this thread..
sorry, i dont want to do that.

I think most of the posters here are smiling now...

[Slugsie]

i got a feeling im going to make enemies on this thread..
sorry, i dont want to do that.

You won't make an enemy out of me, so don't worry there. I have no problem with healthy reasoned discussion which is what I see this thread as.

[dieselboy]

Yes, if you travel away from Tescos at 20mph, the you can also say that Tescos is travelling away from you at 20mph. But that has no relevance to this situation.

YES IT DOES

To make it relevant, you need to add a second person who stands there and doesn't move.
The ground.

It then becomes you travelling away from the third person at 20mph (no the ground, as you stated in post #1),
but Tescos doesn't travel away from them at all. The original problem states that the conveyor does move relative to the fixed ground
No, this is not what you said. you in fact said that the conveyor moves the same speed as the plane but the opposite direction
this will be I.E. the same speed as the ground!!!

see red notes

[Slugsie]

ay?

how the hell can air come out the back of those engines, do a 180 turn, go round the front of the wing, do another 180 turn, pass over the wings and out the back of the plane.

or do your planes go backwards

OK, you've completely lost me. No idea what the relevance of that might be. But obviously that doesn't happen.

[dieselboy]

OK, you've completely lost me. No idea what the relevance of that might be. But obviously that doesn't happen.

sancho said thats what happens when a plane takes off. dont worry, lol

[Sancho]

ay?

how the hell can air come out the back of those engines, do a 180 turn, go round the front of the wing, do another 180 turn, pass over the wings and out the back of the plane.

or do your planes go backwards

Picking up on Chillitt's point on the wings and engines usually going at the same speed....

The air comes out of the engines at 200mph, the engines are connected to the fuselage, the fuselage is connected to the wings and hence the wings go forward at 200mph. So the air is going over the wings at 200mph.

[Slugsie]

see red notes

OK, let's ignore the Tesco scenario, it just add complications that we simply don't need.

If airplane moves forward at 10mph. The conveyor moves backwards at 10mph. That is what the original statement said. This means that they have a relative speed to each other of 20mph no matter how you measure it. No ifs, no buts, that is what happens. Given that the conveyor, acting through the free spinning wheels, cannot excerpt any significant force on the aircraft, then the conveyor will in no way impede the forward motion of the aircraft.

The only way that the aircraft cannot fly is if someone can explain how the conveyor, acting through free spinning wheels, can excerpt a force on the airframe. Until someone can explain that, all other arguments are mute.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Woo hoo! only 6 more pages to go!

[logey79]

Woo hoo! only 6 more pages to go!

until what? the plane takes off?

[Sancho]

The only way that the aircraft cannot fly is if someone can explain how the conveyor, acting through free spinning wheels, can excerpt a force on the airframe. Until someone can explain that, all other arguments are mute.

ooh ooh, I've got one. What if the 200mph conveyor belt creates so much air turbulence that it disturbs the lift?

Does it make any difference if Tescos is also on the conveyor belt?