Airplane on a Conveyor conundrum

[MattF]

Whilst their methods might not have been scientifically rigorous, their success must prove that there is at least a serious flaw in all the arguments that say flight will not happen.

And that single sentence is the nub of the whole thread. It is neither scientifically proven or disproven.

[Chillitt]

For those who still say it won't fly, here's another question for you...
What effect would putting bigger wheels on this aircraft have? Would it take off quicker or slower? (assuming the wheels all weigh the same.)

[MattF]

Silly. That would have no effect whatsoever other than any drag they may introduce.

[Chillitt]

Silly. That would have no effect whatsoever other than any drag they may introduce.

And what about seaplanes? same thing?

[MattF]

And what about seaplanes? same thing?

Okey dokey then, seeing as you're trying to get the specifics out of the way so that it leaves only one possible conclusion. What would happen if an external force caused one of the wheels to rotate in the opposite direction to the other whilst a plane was progressing along the runway for take-off?

[BUSHWHACKER]

If the experiment was carried out, to the letter, as written in the first post of this thread, the plane WILL NOT LIFT!

All the experiments show the conveyer belt moving in the opposite direction of the aircraft's TAKE OFF SPEED, of course it will lift.


Wheels have nothing to do with it.

[Chillitt]

I

Wheels have nothing to do with it.

.... is the right answer.....

[MattF]

If the experiment was carried out, to the letter, as written in the first post of this thread, the plane WILL NOT LIFT!

Thank you Vince.

[TonyN]

hehe, a good thread will never die..........

[Slugsie]

If the experiment was carried out, to the letter, as written in the first post of this thread, the plane WILL NOT LIFT!

Please explain how it will not lift. People seem to be attributing some additional mythical properties to either conveyor belts or aircraft wheels.

And still, no-one has answered my question...

Give a scientific explanation how a conveyor belt, acting solely through a set of free spinning wheels, is able to excerpt any force upon the airframe of an aircraft that will prevent it from moving forward.

[Slugsie]

In fact, to restate the original question:

You have an airplane sat on a huge conveyor belt. The conveyor belt is computer controlled such that its speed is always the same as that of the aircraft - only backwards. I.e. If the aircraft is moving forwards at 10mph, then the conveyor will move backwards at 10mph. Will the aircraft be able to take off?

So I even say that the aircraft is moving forwards.

[MattF]

Please explain how it will not lift. People seem to be attributing some additional mythical properties to either conveyor belts or aircraft wheels.

Look back through my previous posts. You said a fixed point relationship in the original post. Everything that has been done or said to prove it will work has not worked upon that principle. No special attributes are being attributed to anything, but yes, wheels do appear to be the main area of interest. Truth be told, they are indeed important to a degree, but they are not the main factor.

[Slugsie]

Look back through my previous posts. You said a fixed point relationship in the original post. Everything that has been done or said to prove it will work has not worked upon that principle. No special attributes are being attributed to anything, but yes, wheels do appear to be the main area of interest. Truth be told, they are indeed important to a degree, but they are not the main factor.

I'm not following what you're saying here. What exactly do you mean by 'a fixed point relationship'? I did add a clarification that the aircrafts speed is measured relative to the fixed ground, is that what you mean? In which case it should be even more obvious that the aircraft does take off, as it has a speed relative to the fixed ground which is also an airspeed - remember, still air, so fixed ground speed is also air speed.

I have also explained why it would be logically impossible to measure the aircrafts speed against the moving conveyor. That system would either never physically work (and would break at least 1 law of physics), or you'd quickly end up with a conveyor moving at infinite speed.

[MattF]

I have also explained why it would be logically impossible to measure the aircrafts speed against the moving conveyor. That system would either never physically work (and would break at least 1 law of physics), or you'd quickly end up with a conveyor moving at infinite speed.

Nope. Working on one simple assumption. Not relative to a fixed ground, not relative to each other, but relative to a single, fixed point in space. Where that fixed point is is irrelevant, but both are moving away from it at the exact same speed, thereby meaning that no movement is, in actual fact, occuring.

Can't see why you're having such a time understanding such a basic principle myself.

[Slugsie]

Nope. Working on one simple assumption. Not relative to a fixed ground, not relative to each other, but relative to a single, fixed point in space. Where that fixed point is is irrelevant, but both are moving away from it at the exact same speed, thereby meaning that no movement is, in actual fact, occuring.

Can't see why you're having such a time understanding such a basic principle myself.

OK, that just makes no sense at all. If the aircraft is moving away from a fixed point in space, then it is also moving through the air because the air is still and therefore must be not moving relative to the fixed point in space. Unless you are using a fixed point sat on the star Betelgeuse or such, in which case you are needlessly complicating the system.