Sarn Helen is shut!

[MudSurfer]

I know. I was getting a little annoyed at the amount of bitchin' but seemingly lack of taking action.

Glass has only 1,900ish members, its pathetic in the big scheme of things. This forum has 14,000!!! The bobble hats have 140,000 odd, its a wonder any byways are left open at all.

Depressed of Basingstoke...

I've had a less than helpful reply from the main TRO admin at GLASS already, and will be waiting for Maxwell (Sir Maxwell Aitken) to get back to me on Monday. Just logged back in to GLASS to make a noise and see what level of support we can expect.

So - here is my other plan - get them on side, use the power of the member numbers on this forum, and get the local and national press involved. My dad used to be a freelance journalist, so I've asked him for some contacts in the Times, Telegraph, Granuiad etc. to see how I get on.....

Let's make a real fuss over this in public!

[Woodzie]

I know. I was getting a little annoyed at the amount of bitchin' but seemingly lack of taking action.

Glass has only 1,900ish members, its pathetic in the big scheme of things. This forum has 14,000!!! The bobble hats have 140,000 odd, its a wonder any byways are left open at all.

Depressed of Basingstoke...

Are you surprised at £33 to join then £30 per year after ......alot of us cannot afford that ........especially if i keep breaking my truck like i do




They would have more members if it was not that much

[Apache]

Put it in perspective though mate, it's only about 50p a week. Cant even get a quick half for double that anymore!

TBH though, they dont exactly go out of their way to recruit new members, and their website is a mess!

[gwh200]

well then the answer lies within.
i looked at the glass site and tbh just gave up.as tony pointed put,glass has 1900 members,we have 14000 members,why join an association that isnt being to proactive/effective,when we would quite likely have a solid base here.the hilux surf forum green lane association.if any other forums for other makes want to unite,past the glass/lara route....is this at all possible ?

[Chillitt]

Or...us, POCUK mudclub and all the rest could be affiliated to GLASS, then there's thousands of members straight away..

[The Lovely Boyo]

Hello

I have had the names of the people I need to speak to ref. Sarn Helen (off Bob at TBR). I will give them a call and get back to you.

The attachment is guidance notes off DEFRA. It is a pdf file - change the extension and it should open OK.

It does not make for good reading. In some cases, the restrictions even apply to cyclists and horse riders.

There is no national right of appeal in this act. DEFRA will leave it up to local authorities to take representations off interested parties.

[Apache]

I think there is definitely mileage in getting the 'one make' forums all together on this, but GLASS are a respected, well known organisation and more likely to be taken seriously by the powers that be.

I dont know how we'd go about it (other than a sudden flood of about 50'000 new members, which they probably couldn't cope with) but it would be better if we could all get together under the umbrella of an already respected organisation.

I'll try to have a word with out local rep. Mudsurfer, any joy with your local lot yet?

[Fordy]

other than a sudden flood of about 50'000 new members, which they probably couldn't cope with

I'm sure I'd cope with a large injection of cash!

One voice is needed to be heard over all others; this GLASS/LARA/CRAG/etc is divisive and does not help.

Can GLASS can be effective? What will they do given the resources to protect continued use of green lanes?

If they are 'the one' then a lot can be done to boost membership and revenue which in turn gives them funds to employ someone to tackle it and not leave it to well meaning hobbyists (sweeping generalisation which may not be true), ie promote them on the 'one make' forums with some cold truths to get attention, encourage the 4x4 clubs to offer discount to GLASS members, even forum membership could be discounted too etc.

But Mudsurfer's post doesn't fill me with confidence that they are or can be effective. Persuade me otherwise and I'll sign up tomorrow and get all evangelical in promoting them.

[Apache]

Just spoke to Matt, one of our local GLASS reps. I've emailed him a link to this thread, and he's going to sign up here and have a look.

Apparently, we can join GLASS as a 'club' if indeed membership of this forum constitutes a club membership, which is cheaper than individual membership. It sounds worthwhile.

So, when Matt turns up, welcome him as I know you will. He's a good chap.

[The Lovely Boyo]

Bob from TBR called me last night. He will be discussing Sarn Helen with the Brecon Rights of Way officer today.

Bob's view is that we should (for the time being) keep it at a local level as the ROW guy will know what the chances are of getting this ban lifted.

FYI - Strata Florida is due to be closed by the end of 2008 and Happy Valley is to be closed in 2010.

Cr4p.

[Apache]

I have one question to ask the people who are making these decisions.

WHY?

As we all know, lanes that are not in use become overgrown and impassable with time, and will lose their character, eventually becoming just a line on a map indicating that there was once something there. The proper state of these ROW is 'used'. That is how they keep their original character.

I haven't noticed a serious problem of overuse and undue wear and tear on any of the routes mentioned here, so the reason for closure MUST lie elsewhere?

I think the decisions need to be more transparent and openly debated because this really is starting to smell simply like one other way to remove our 'evil, polluting, pedestrian killing monsters' from the planet.

TBH, if it ends up that there's nowhere for me to go but tarmac, with heavy heart, I will have to retire the truck. 'THEY' will have won, and life will be duller, with yet another freedom removed for everyone as a result.

[joker??]

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=17861seems like wales is the focus point

[The Lovely Boyo]

I have spoken to Brecon Council today - they have confirmed that Sarn Helen is officially shut and has been for over a year.

I have arranged to speak to their Rights of Way officer tomorrow afternoon to discuss what we can do to change the status of the road.

It was a RUPP - Road Used as a Public Path and has been reclassified as a Restricted Byway (RB). This is a new category and is the one causing all the trouble. Any road in England or Wales that was a RUPP is now Restricted Byway - http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/ruraldelivery/bill/

Brecon confirmed that no police action has been taken since the closure. However, they are trying to get the police involved.

I personally drove and checked all 6 entrances on the 3 sections of Sarn Helen last Friday - there is no signage in place indicating ther status of the road. In fact, some of the 5 bar gates have been completely removed.

[TonyN]

It was a RUPP - Road Used as a Public Path and has been reclassified as a Restricted Byway (RB). This is a new category and is the one causing all the trouble. Any road in England or Wales that was a RUPP is now Restricted Byway - http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/ruraldelivery/bill/

Yup, most RUPP now gone as legally drivable, byways soon to follow.

DEFRAs offical party line of the NERC act.....

The Act delivers our commitment to curtail the inappropriate use of byways by motor vehicles by putting an end to claims for motor vehicle access on the basis of historical use by horse-drawn vehicles.

"inappropriate use" meaning all use in reality.

A must read for anyone still with their heads in the sand.....

http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?op...=35&Itemid=360

(scroll down the page to view, the index links don't seem to work)

and then go and join GLASS and others!!

[gwh200]

armchair lawyer that i am,i have printed of the amendment which defines the guidancethat this document gives.firstly derfa say this should only be used by the local authority as a means for the l a to uphold the rules regarding their rights of way as defined on their definitive map.there though is a very interesting section (page 5 sec 9 page 5) whereby the lords upheld a right for mechaniccaly propelled vehicles to use a byway if thit could be proven they had done so for 20 years or more.this act overode said decision,which has been described as un constitutional....
am going to pass this one on to our legal chap and see what he can make of it.the biggest problem facing any potential poicy reversal, is the fact that over the last 8 years or so our law making has become inherently unconstitutional (gov watch synopsis).there are sure to be plenty of contradictions in this bill of amendments(which covered the balls ups made in the initial countryside act 2000),not least a vague but interesting notion that forbids vehicles used exclusively for handicapped persons,but allows walking,which seems to clearly be a human rights/discriminatory issue.there are though plenty of discrepancies and contradictions from both documents.....seems a good nights reading is ahead.