Had to call out the RAC

[RodLeach]

Looks like I got the wrong colour eh?

I drive a P reg Def twice a month to the "local" shoot 177 miles round trip, most miles are motorway then A - B roads endind in MUD, wellies, soggy dogs, spilt tea, empty beer bottles, feathers, blood and fur. Yes it has a different key for every fekin hole/ lock, yes all the heater controls are bent and buggered BUT it works and is workable, I have never heard of it like being sardine like although I often wondered about the fuel tank under the drivers seat V tracer?

STOP!

This aint how good / bad the Def is this is how BAD the S**f can be, I bought the pig for 2.3k and have spent a further 1k in the past 12 months and this is with MY mechi's doing all the work = probs 4.5k in real money FFS I could have got a GV for that and done some real off-road.

Yeah that did become a bit of an anti defender thing!

Like i said i'd like one just for the fact that its rough an ready and i like the looks aswell

truth be told i probably would have got one had my budget been able to stretch that far but all the bits i wanted to do to it meant it was out of reach!

The only reason i sold my first surf was because i fancied a nice change! turns out i was back surfing after a month!

[Apache]

Brings back sweet memories.........The last time I had the lights fail on a Defender was in the pub car park just outside Barry Buddon ranges @ Dundee, we blew the fuse and "limped" home when the bar closed 3 hours after the convoy (we were the FFR). Unfortunatly the anti social Sgt major had to kep the armoury open for us and he wernt too chuffed = guard duty for the weekend V Dundee pussy = JAIL. Superb

The light switch on ours just exploded. Fell to bits in the footwell, where it's remains fell through said aircon hole in the floor.

I followed a Warrior (the armoured variety, not a Mitsubishi) back to the main road and taped the remains together to give us dipped beam to get us home. The wipers stopped working on that trip too.

It's in the carpark outside my office now, close enough so I can throw stones at it.

[Diezel Weazel]

[QUOTE=M35A2] Ok. You lot have set yourselves up on this one, and you know what is coming!!!

On the Otherhand, I can honestly say (repeating meself again) I've spent no more than £500 in over 5 years, in repairs & maintenance & the tyres are half worn after 41/2 years.... I'm More than Happy

There's always a Payback .... You just can't see it Comin !!!!

[M35A2]

This argument will go on forever.

Some like Defenders (like me) and some don't. My dad bought a brand new Disco in 2004 (he still has it), and yes he has said it is starting to rust. But I did tell him to get it waxoiled and undersealed straight out of the showroom, but he said Land Rover would void the warrantee if he did this. The car he had before was a 1 year old Jaguar S type. That was only a year old and the gearbox went and he had a new one fitted on warrantee, then the rear diff went, as well as electrical problems etc. He sold it at a massive loss to buy the disco.

I don't accept the "tin of sardines" argument. My Defender is a Military FFR. It is massive compared to the Surf, and has so much room in the back (would have even more if it wasn't for the radio table). It has aluminium body panels that, if dented, can be hammered out. You can stand on the front wings, bonnet and roof and don't have to worry about denting it with your weight. My gearbox on mine leaks oil, but they all do that, they are famous for it, just like the head issue on the Surfs. I even ran mine out of oil when I first got it on the way back to my Regiment in Colchester on weekend. It nearly seized. I just let it cool down and carried on then put some oil in it when I got back. How many Surfs could do that?

It has a proper rear door and if I want I can unbolt the roof and put a soft top on it and then fit a tail gate. If you go off road and get it all dirty you don't have to worry about the carpets as it doesn't have any. You just get the hose pipe and wash the thing out.

At the end of the day, both vehicles have their plus and negative points. If I could afford the £15,000 for a Defender XD Wolf then I would buy one tomorrow. Like I said, in the 8 years I was in the Army I never experienced any problems with them. As far as Apache's Defender goes, I'm not surprised with that one. The ones the range staff have don't get looked after and are abused.

The vehicle has been going since 1948 and is still going. About 80% of the total build are still on the road. That says a lot.

Reliability??? Well you only have to look at all the problems on here that people have with their trucks to see they are not very reliable. The people that have no problems are very much in the minority and are the lucky ones.


Lets see what Hammons says.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z5S3G81rVYI

[logey79]

1st gens are the nuts for offroading (unless it's me in one!)

for build quality they are miles stronger than the 2nd gens, i know naff all about the 3rd's other than the fact that hairdressers drive them.

but i'd put a 1st gen into a battle with a defender any day.

[RodLeach]

This argument will go on forever.

Some like Defenders (like me) and some don't. My dad bought a brand new Disco in 2004 (he still has it), and yes he has said it is starting to rust. But I did tell him to get it waxoiled and undersealed straight out of the showroom, but he said Land Rover would void the warrantee if he did this. The car he had before was a 1 year old Jaguar S type. That was only a year old and the gearbox went and he had a new one fitted on warrantee, then the rear diff went, as well as electrical problems etc. He sold it at a massive loss to buy the disco.

I don't accept the "tin of sardines" argument. My Defender is a Military FFR. It is massive compared to the Surf, and has so much room in the back (would have even more if it wasn't for the radio table). It has aluminium body panels that, if dented, can be hammered out. You can stand on the front wings, bonnet and roof and don't have to worry about denting it with your weight. My gearbox on mine leaks oil, but they all do that, they are famous for it, just like the head issue on the Surfs. I even ran mine out of oil when I first got it on the way back to my Regiment in Colchester on weekend. It nearly seized. I just let it cool down and carried on then put some oil in it when I got back. How many Surfs could do that?

It has a proper rear door and if I want I can unbolt the roof and put a soft top on it and then fit a tail gate. If you go off road and get it all dirty you don't have to worry about the carpets as it doesn't have any. You just get the hose pipe and wash the thing out.

At the end of the day, both vehicles have their plus and negative points. If I could afford the £15,000 for a Defender XD Wolf then I would buy one tomorrow. Like I said, in the 8 years I was in the Army I never experienced any problems with them. As far as Apache's Defender goes, I'm not surprised with that one. The ones the range staff have don't get looked after and are abused.

The vehicle has been going since 1948 and is still going. About 80% of the total build are still on the road. That says a lot.

Reliability??? Well you only have to look at all the problems on here that people have with their trucks to see they are not very reliable. The people that have no problems are very much in the minority and are the lucky ones.


Lets see what Hammons says.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z5S3G81rVYI

the bowler wild cat! Its just amazing!

I hope no ones got the wrong end of the stick on my view here!!

I Really REALLY like the Land rover defender! i would happily own one! an i admit it has its pros n cons same with surfs an all other cars/trucks etc

But pros an cons are not the points we should be looking at! Its how you feel about the car! I do suffer a bit with the occasional "Surf grin" I LOVE driving one and being in one and generally just looking at them!
Im sure if i owned a defender i would probably feel the same!

My original point though was that if your unhappy with a car you should march it on and get something that you do like!

I know i would have a hard time if someone offered me a V8, rag top, 90 saying "no" to them
But untill that day i will still march on in my surf happy as larry!

[M35A2]

the bowler wild cat! Its just amazing!

I hope no ones got the wrong end of the stick on my view here!!

I Really REALLY like the Land rover defender! i would happily own one! an i admit it has its pros n cons same with surfs an all other cars/trucks etc

But pros an cons are not the points we should be looking at! Its how you feel about the car! I do suffer a bit with the occasional "Surf grin" I LOVE driving one and being in one and generally just looking at them!
Im sure if i owned a defender i would probably feel the same!

My original point though was that if your unhappy with a car you should march it on and get something that you do like!

I know i would have a hard time if someone offered me a V8, rag top, 90 saying "no" to them
But untill that day i will still march on in my surf happy as larry!

I think you are right about getting rid of a truck if you don't like it. But i think the problem is more of people liking a truck when it's working and then when it goes wrong they still like it, but at the time are sick of paying out.

When my trucks head went i was pretty depressed. It seems no amount of money thrown at it and strict servicing will keep it reliable. I was pretty close to torching it a few times when doing that head. But now it's back up and running and running sweet as a nut I love it again. The thing is, I am now wondering what else is going to go wrong with it. What happens if the gearbox goes? I can get a recon Military box for my Defender and fit it in a day by myself for £350, how much will a Surf gearbox set you back, and looking at it, the whole engine and transmission assembley needs to come out to replace the gearbox on a Surf.

Then you start to think shall I quit while I'm ahead and mag to grid, or do you keep it thinking everything that will go wrong has gone wrong and it will now stay reliable.

I have these doubts with my Surf, but would drive my Defender to Germany without a second thought.

[RodLeach]

I think you are right about getting rid of a truck if you don't like it. But i think the problem is more of people liking a truck when it's working and then when it goes wrong they still like it, but at the time are sick of paying out.

When my trucks head went i was pretty depressed. It seems no amount of money thrown at it and strict servicing will keep it reliable. I was pretty close to torching it a few times when doing that head. But now it's back up and running and running sweet as a nut I love it again. The thing is, I am now wondering what else is going to go wrong with it. What happens if the gearbox goes? I can get a recon Military box for my Defender and fit it in a day by myself for £350, how much will a Surf gearbox set you back, and looking at it, the whole engine and transmission assembley needs to come out to replace the gearbox on a Surf.

Then you start to think shall I quit while I'm ahead and mag to grid, or do you keep it thinking everything that will go wrong has gone wrong and it will now stay reliable.

I have these doubts with my Surf, but would drive my Defender to Germany without a second thought.

I know what you mean! You cant put a price on peace of mind!!
At the moment ive not any trouble with my surf! other then a hose falling off when i got it!
But i follow the view of when/if it goes wrong would i go V6/V8 route?!? or would i just break it for parts! I only paid £1700 and its got enough little extras for me to make a fair chunk of money back!
Then to be honest i would probably hunt for a nice 90 or a double cab hilux!
I can understand it would be a sh1t place to be when you have to spend money on repairing a truck when the repairs exceed the trucks value!

what are the main differences between the Wolf and a regular defender? I spoke with a bloke at my local land rover dealer an he recommended getting a wolf over a standard 90

[M35A2]

I know what you mean! You cant put a price on peace of mind!!
At the moment ive not any trouble with my surf! other then a hose falling off when i got it!
But i follow the view of when/if it goes wrong would i go V6/V8 route?!? or would i just break it for parts! I only paid £1700 and its got enough little extras for me to make a fair chunk of money back!
Then to be honest i would probably hunt for a nice 90 or a double cab hilux!
I can understand it would be a sh1t place to be when you have to spend money on repairing a truck when the repairs exceed the trucks value!

what are the main differences between the Wolf and a regular defender? I spoke with a bloke at my local land rover dealer an he recommended getting a wolf over a standard 90

A Wolf is a different animal compaired to a "normal" Defender.

It has been manufactured solely for the Military. It has a heavier duty chassis, heavy duty suspension, removable gearbox crossmember (so the gearbox can be taken out a lot easier) heavy duty axles, discs all round and the brilliant 300TDI engine.

I drove one back from Donnington to Colchester doing 90mph all the way, and that was cruising.

The only ones that get released at the moment are accident damaged Wolfs that have been rebuilt. There are a few around, but expect to pay about £15,000 for one.

If you decide to buy a Landy, you will be a fool not to go for an ex Military version as these have been maintained to a better standard than in civvy street. For example, I did 8 years in the Army, and know for a fact that all vehicles get 6 monthly and 1 yearly services. If a vehicle has sat for 5 months it still gets it's 6 month or 1 yearly service regardless of if it has turned a wheel. It also gets a PRI which is the Armys version of an MOT every year.

The Wolfs have a 5 year warrantee with Land Rover, so for the first 5 years they would have had any warrantee work done by a main dealer.

They have been trialed to destruction by the Military and that's why Land Rover were offered the contract to supply these vehicles. The new Defender is going a bit soft, it's being fitted with the 2.4lt Transit diesel engine and has a one piece dash and "proper" switches and heater controls etc, but I will bet the Military versions of the future will be the same as the old ones.

This is what you can buy at the moment.

This is a tender sale just gone. See what you can get for your money.

http://www.witham-sv.com/tender/

[Apache]

A Wolf is a different animal compaired to a "normal" Defender.

It has been manufactured solely for the Military. It has a heavier duty chassis, heavy duty suspension, removable gearbox crossmember (so the gearbox can be taken out a lot easier) heavy duty axles, discs all round and the brilliant 300TDI engine.

I drove one back from Donnington to Colchester doing 90mph all the way, and that was cruising.

The only ones that get released at the moment are accident damaged Wolfs that have been rebuilt. There are a few around, but expect to pay about £15,000 for one.

If you decide to buy a Landy, you will be a fool not to go for an ex Military version as these have been maintained to a better standard than in civvy street. For example, I did 8 years in the Army, and know for a fact that all vehicles get 6 monthly and 1 yearly services. If a vehicle has sat for 5 months it still gets it's 6 month or 1 yearly service regardless of if it has turned a wheel. It also gets a PRI which is the Armys version of an MOT every year.

The Wolfs have a 5 year warrantee with Land Rover, so for the first 5 years they would have had any warrantee work done by a main dealer.

They have been trialed to destruction by the Military and that's why Land Rover were offered the contract to supply these vehicles. The new Defender is going a bit soft, it's being fitted with the 2.4lt Transit diesel engine and has a one piece dash and "proper" switches and heater controls etc, but I will bet the Military versions of the future will be the same as the old ones.

This is what you can buy at the moment.

This is a tender sale just gone. See what you can get for your money.

http://www.witham-sv.com/tender/

Why buy a military one if it's the same as the sh1t Defenders of the past. You can have ours for a decent cheese and ham toastie, your best conker, and 50p... Gladly!

It's a piece of cr@p! Now I find one of us has to drive the f***in thing 330 miles to West Freugh!!! Bu66er that for a game of soldiers, I'm taking the Surf!

[Hilux]

Surf,s

Hi folks l am proberly going to regret saying this but as you know l used to import from Japan so l have had quite afew Surfs in my time. The average age of these vehicles is around 12years old and they are close to 2ton, they are not a sports car but alot of the drivers :::?????. Sorry l could go on for hours show me a 12year old 2ton vehicle that will do 80mph go off-road and not breakdown, because thats what alot of Surf owners do l am not saying drive round wearing you slippers but treat the vehicle with some respect.

SORRY FOR BEING A BORE.

[ohsupremebeing]

Hi folks l am proberly going to regret saying this but as you know l used to import from Japan so l have had quite afew Surfs in my time. The average age of these vehicles is around 12years old and they are close to 2ton, they are not a sports car but alot of the drivers :::?????. Sorry l could go on for hours show me a 12year old 2ton vehicle that will do 80mph go off-road and not breakdown, because thats what alot of Surf owners do l am not saying drive round wearing you slippers but treat the vehicle with some respect.

SORRY FOR BEING A BORE.

I am with you on that one bob they cant go on for ever not with off roading as well

your always boring lol

[Gizmo]

I know what you mean! You cant put a price on peace of mind!!
At the moment ive not any trouble with my surf! other then a hose falling off when i got it!
But i follow the view of when/if it goes wrong would i go V6/V8 route?!? or would i just break it for parts! I only paid £1700 and its got enough little extras for me to make a fair chunk of money back!
Then to be honest i would probably hunt for a nice 90 or a double cab hilux!
I can understand it would be a sh1t place to be when you have to spend money on repairing a truck when the repairs exceed the trucks value!

what are the main differences between the Wolf and a regular defender? I spoke with a bloke at my local land rover dealer an he recommended getting a wolf over a standard 90

if i am correct in saying this also, some of the wolf vehicle are kitted out with extra heating facilites for passengers in the back for use in extreme weather environments.

[M35A2]

if i am correct in saying this also, some of the wolf vehicle are kitted out with extra heating facilites for passengers in the back for use in extreme weather environments.

They are the winterised versions, of which nearly all are operated by the Royal Marines.