Had to call out the RAC

[PDR]

Came to drive home tonight and the Surf would not start… just a click.

Called out the RAC man who did various checks and found it was the starter motor (gave the starter a bang with a length of heavy pipe). Oh and he was saying how much nicer these Surfs are than Land Rovers!

I’m now going to have the fun of taking off the starter motor and getting it repaired. There is a local auto-electrican that I have been using for years so I’ll try him first.

At least I’ve found how to take it off….


http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/...imrockford.htm

[marky]

The BOLTS are very very long so ive heard

[Diezel Weazel]

Thankfully ya ain't got a 2.4, otherwise ya'd have a few scored knuckles

There's always a Payback .... You just can't see it Comin !!!!

[AuldNick]

While Toyota produce sh!te like the S**f Landrover will sell simple sorted rustbuckets like the defender @ twice the price.

[RodLeach]

While Toyota produce sh!te like the S**f Landrover will sell simple sorted rustbuckets like the defender @ twice the price.

If you've got THAT much against surfs why dont you just sell the bl00dy thing!! I had a disco! didnt like it! SO....I sold the damn thing! after a month of owning it! rather then waisting peoples time sayin "ohh i hate discos" i just got out there n got rid of it!

I suggest you do the same mate if you think the surf is "sh!te"
Im not going to dispute that point with you because thats your view and your entitled to it! Just because i think a discovery is sh!t dont mean the hundreds and thousands of people who own them do!

So just stick it in the autotrader and get somet else....

[PDR]

While Toyota produce sh!te like the S**f Landrover will sell simple sorted rustbuckets like the defender @ twice the price.

In six moths of ownership I have only got my tools out twice, once to fit the bulbar and then last weekend to sort out an oil leak (turned out to be the oil filter).

I have studied the removal of this starter motor and while access is restricted, I don’t think it is any worse than on the Land Rovers or MG sports cars I’ve owned in the past. This Surf is 13 years old so the starter has lasted quite well.

Chatting to the RAC man last night he said:

“Wow, V6 petrol… these are rare, they are normally diesel”
“Your battery and charging is fine… the electrics on these are normally very good”
“These Surfs have a strong following…. And good web sites”
“So much nicer than those awful Discos… the roof is not too high… nice to drive.. handle very well for a big vehicle.”

I think he liked it

I’ve worked on a number of Land rovers (series II, IIA, III, 90 & 110) and totally rebuilt a IIA from the chassis up so I do feel qualified to make a judgement…The Surf is in a totally different league, yes more complex, but so much more reliable and better built. In the 5 years that I owned Land Rovers I was constantly fixing something!!!

[M35A2]

Ok. You lot have set yourselves up on this one, and you know what is coming!!!

All I will say is that in the period I have owned my Surf (Aug 2005) it's cost me upwards of £3000 and in the time I have owned my Defender (Nov 1998) it's cost me about the same. The difference is that I had to spend that money on the Surf as it let me down, the Defender has always stepped up to the plate and the money I have spent on it is through choice.

Out of the two vehicles the Defender is by far the more reliable vehicle. It's also much easier to work on, the parts are a lot cheaper and it is a very rugged vehicle. The Surf on the other hand is more fragile, parts are far more expensive and it is a bit*h to work on. BUT, I still love it.

I wouldn't say it's nicer to drive, just different. I like rough and ready vehicles, so the fact my Defender is a Military vehicle with absolutely no creature comforts (apart from a stone age heater) doesn't bother me.

The ride, I think, is actually better in my Defender as it's coils all round, and it can haul an incredible amount of weight, but it is very underpowered for it's size (2.5 NA Diesel), and having rebuilt the axles and replaced the whole braking system it's brakes are better than the Surf too. Having said that, the Wolf (Defender XD) is an unbelievable truck, fast, good on fuel, unbeatable off road and yet still easy to work on.

My Surf on the other hand is very comfy, fast, warm, good looking and a good drive. It comes with all mod cons and is by far the vehicle of choice on these cold days.

I love them both for different reasons, but in my experience the Defender (and my series 3) are more reliable than my Surf, fact.

Oh, and not all Land Rovers rust to bits, my Defender hasn't got any rust on it whatsoever.

[RodLeach]

Ok. You lot have set yourselves up on this one, and you know what is coming!!!

All I will say is that in the period I have owned my Surf (Aug 2005) it's cost me upwards of £3000 and in the time I have owned my Defender (Nov 1998) it's cost me about the same. The difference is that I had to spend that money on the Surf as it let me down, the Defender has always stepped up to the plate and the money I have spent on it is through choice.

Out of the two vehicles the Defender is by far the more reliable vehicle. It's also much easier to work on, the parts are a lot cheaper and it is a very rugged vehicle. The Surf on the other hand is more fragile, parts are far more expensive and it is a bit*h to work on. BUT, I still love it.

I wouldn't say it's nicer to drive, just different. I like rough and ready vehicles, so the fact my Defender is a Military vehicle with absolutely no creature comforts (apart from a stone age heater) doesn't bother me.

The ride, I think, is actually better in my Defender as it's coils all round, and it can haul an incredible amount of weight, but it is very underpowered for it's size (2.5 NA Diesel), and having rebuilt the axles and replaced the whole braking system it's brakes are better than the Surf too. Having said that, the Wolf (Defender XD) is an unbelievable truck, fast, good on fuel, unbeatable off road and yet still easy to work on.

My Surf on the other hand is very comfy, fast, warm, good looking and a good drive. It comes with all mod cons and is by far the vehicle of choice on these cold days.

I love them both for different reasons, but in my experience the Defender (and my series 3) are more reliable than my Surf, fact.

Oh, and not all Land Rovers rust to bits, my Defender hasn't got any rust on it whatsoever.

i was lookin at defenders at the time of getting the 2nd surf! I would LOVE and i mean LOVE a defender 90, Rag top, roll cage, V8! seriously would love it!
I can understand that a lot of the time that its down to the actual cars we choose to buy as to what our opinions of them are!
If you've not had luck with a surf i dont blame that person at all for not being happy with it! Its just unfortunate really!

But in the same i hope everyone can understand my point in my previous post about if your not happy with a car then you should just sell it!

I really feel sorry for anyone who has the dreaded head failure on either 2.4 or 3.0 because it does cost so much money but without repairing it the trucks worth...well f88k all!

[AuldNick]

If you've got THAT much against surfs why dont you just sell the bl00dy thing!! I had a disco! didnt like it! SO....I sold the damn thing! after a month of owning it! rather then waisting peoples time sayin "ohh i hate discos" i just got out there n got rid of it!

I suggest you do the same mate if you think the surf is "sh!te"
Im not going to dispute that point with you because thats your view and your entitled to it! Just because i think a discovery is sh!t dont mean the hundreds and thousands of people who own them do!

So just stick it in the autotrader and get somet else....

To be honest I like the look of the car and the way it handles on and off road, perhaps I was wrong to buy after reading reports here and on other Surf forums as these forums are tainted and slightly bias towards some owners not telling the full truth as if this would be admiting their mistake on choice as after talking face to face with other Surf owners these cars are soft and most owners sell within one year whereas a LR is for life not only Xmas.

Why wont I sell?
1. Because it IS sh!te and even I have some scruples.
2. It is a cheap car and it aint crossed the point of no return yet.
3. Like I said, I like the pile of poo (almost nearly).
4. It aint broke down for 13 days = a new record.
5. Thats what insurance is for, the first granny to scratch the paintwork in Tesco's carpark will do me a BIG favour as the insurance will bin the import.

BTW. There are more Disco's on every shoot / hunting trip I have been to
and they simply keep going & going.

[Apache]

Ah, vive-le-differential eh Rodders?

Personally I have lots of experience of Defenders and Discos through work. I absolutely LOATHE the Defender. It is about the most unreliable vehicle I've ever had the misfortune to use. It's also uncomfortable, thirsty, noisy and generally a pain in the f*ckin arse.

The Disco is much nicer and I have nothing against them other than for the fact that they rust like a rusty thing, and ours both broke a lot. (A V8 and a TD5)

We also have a Warrior which is somewhere between the two. Feels $$$$ on the road and a bit lightweight and fragile off road.

I prefer the Surf to the three of them, honestly, or I wouldn't own it. I've only had the ordinary things go wrong through wear and tear, but I do keep it fairly well serviced. If I had to pick one of the others, it would be the Disco. Its better than the Warrior, but I wouldn't keep it too long incase it dissolved outside the house.

[AuldNick]

Ah, vive-le-differential eh Rodders?

Personally I have lots of experience of Defenders and Discos through work. I absolutely LOATHE the Defender. It is about the most unreliable vehicle I've ever had the misfortune to use. It's also uncomfortable, thirsty, noisy and generally a pain in the f*ckin arse.

The Disco is much nicer and I have nothing against them other than for the fact that they rust like a rusty thing, and ours both broke a lot. (A V8 and a TD5)

We also have a Warrior which is somewhere between the two. Feels $$$$ on the road and a bit lightweight and fragile off road.

I prefer the Surf to the three of them, honestly, or I wouldn't own it. I've only had the ordinary things go wrong through wear and tear, but I do keep it fairly well serviced. If I had to pick one of the others, it would be the Disco. Its better than the Warrior, but I wouldn't keep it too long incase it dissolved outside the house.

I hear you re ra rusty Disco but I see loads of em on shoots and the owners love them, FFS a mate of mine had the steering fail on a 6 month old one due to summit not being tightened at the factory and his misses ended up down a gully onto the main Glasgow - London railway line car a total write off guese what he got next.....another $$$$$$ Disco?!

Defenders dont breakdown, OK the gearbox will get noisy, the chassis will rot and everything else will fail but the engines tend to be solid enuf and most Defenders are sorted for ten bob max. Nine years in the TA (3 full time) I have driven these $$$$$$ things through most of EU and gawd knows how many times up & down UK, 9 years, plenty heavy off-road including tank training areas / mud parks, thousands of miles = 0 nil nowt zilch breakdowns! Try that in a Surf!!

OK I give you the sore arse point

[Apache]

OK I give you the sore arse point

And sore ankle. There's a hole somewhere near the right foot so your foot freezes, and I cant drive the things without the window open so my elbow can move, AND the last time I took the f*kin thing out, the lights failed right in the middle of salisbury plain in the middle of the night!

[RodLeach]

The reason i would love a defender is purly for offroad! I wouldnt care if i dented a panel because it just wouldn't bother me! but i'd just cry for weeks if my surf was dented because i think its amazing and im really glad to own one!

My mate said "sitting in a defender is like being in a tin of sardines" an i think hes got a good point!

Like i said i dont doubt for a minute that the disco is popular for all walks of life! It just wasnt for me!

with regards to your reasons for not selling it, i can see only one real reason and that is because you like the looks etc! Other then that your not at fault for selling it! its up to the buyer to come along and make a choice! I mean....someone sold it to you!


I agree with you about forums being biased but then everyone knows if you post here sayin "whats these surfs like then" your going to get told "They are amazing....just dont buy a burgindiddy one"

I think more then anything you've just sh!t luck with it mate!

[AuldNick]

And sore ankle. There's a hole somewhere near the right foot so your foot freezes, and I cant drive the things without the window open so my elbow can move, AND the last time I took the f*kin thing out, the lights failed right in the middle of salisbury plain in the middle of the night!

Brings back sweet memories.........The last time I had the lights fail on a Defender was in the pub car park just outside Barry Buddon ranges @ Dundee, we blew the fuse and "limped" home when the bar closed 3 hours after the convoy (we were the FFR). Unfortunatly the anti social Sgt major had to kep the armoury open for us and he wernt too chuffed = guard duty for the weekend V Dundee pussy = JAIL. Superb

[AuldNick]

The reason i would love a defender is purly for offroad! I wouldnt care if i dented a panel because it just wouldn't bother me! but i'd just cry for weeks if my surf was dented because i think its amazing and im really glad to own one!

My mate said "sitting in a defender is like being in a tin of sardines" an i think hes got a good point!

Like i said i dont doubt for a minute that the disco is popular for all walks of life! It just wasnt for me!

with regards to your reasons for not selling it, i can see only one real reason and that is because you like the looks etc! Other then that your not at fault for selling it! its up to the buyer to come along and make a choice! I mean....someone sold it to you!


I agree with you about forums being biased but then everyone knows if you post here sayin "whats these surfs like then" your going to get told "They are amazing....just dont buy a burgindiddy one"

I think more then anything you've just sh!t luck with it mate!

Looks like I got the wrong colour eh?

I drive a P reg Def twice a month to the "local" shoot 177 miles round trip, most miles are motorway then A - B roads endind in MUD, wellies, soggy dogs, spilt tea, empty beer bottles, feathers, blood and fur. Yes it has a different key for every fekin hole/ lock, yes all the heater controls are bent and buggered BUT it works and is workable, I have never heard of it like being sardine like although I often wondered about the fuel tank under the drivers seat V tracer?

STOP!

This aint how good / bad the Def is this is how BAD the S**f can be, I bought the pig for 2.3k and have spent a further 1k in the past 12 months and this is with MY mechi's doing all the work = probs 4.5k in real money FFS I could have got a GV for that and done some real off-road.