Best 3rd party Surf Check - RAC or others?

[Kenny_Notts]

Here's a question to throw in the melting pot.

Is there a company like the RAC who is surf friendly and who you can pay to go out and check your potential purchase over. The RAC dont, as far as I know (and I may be wrong) dont actually check any of the mechanics, they just do a visual check?

Ideas and suggestions would be great?

Kenny_Notts

[Panrixx]

Kenny,

Your best bet might be to find a technically minded forum member who lives near by and is willing to give your potential purchase the once over. At least they will know what to look for.

[Dog_Book]

Like ME

[Kenny_Notts]

Hi Ya M8

Like ME

Hi Ya Dog Book,

Nice to meet a Surf owner in Nottingham.

Its really nerve wrecking looking at 2nd hand cars in the first place let alone one I hardly know anything about (like a Surf).

The only dealers I have managed to find in the Notts area that actually have decent Surfs seem, to be blunt, a shade dodgy. So far I have been to Junction 24 4x4 near Long Eaton, Aria Motors on the way to Ilkeston and Cestrefeld Service Station at Chesterfield (thanks Roger_H).

They all have back street or shoddy sales areas and the salemen themselves seem out and out shifty when I start asking them questions about the car (has the cam belt been changed, were the fluids changed from Jap to UK when it was imported and so on) and dont seem to have the correct answers. They all to a man, claim thier Surfs are grade 4 but only one out of the 8+ I have looked at have been, the rest were Grade 3 - 3.5.

Not to mention that all the Surfs are over priced. I have read this and other forums every night for what seems like weeks now and checked other dealer prices around the country so have a fairly good idea of what price Surfs should be going for. None of the Surfs have any kind of BIMTA check and two of the three dealers claim they have never heard of BIMTA.


So heres how I see it. Once I buy my Surf, I wil have to get the cam belt checked to see if it need changing and if so, have it done. Get all the fluids changed anyway (to be safe). Have the Surf serviced by a trusted Garage or toyota dealer, a lot of the surfs I have looked at have worn or hard tyres so a new set of tyres would be needed. New brakes and discs and so on and so on. Everything that the good people of this forum recomend you have done to ya new Surf before you can really enjoy it.

Now in my book all this is gonna add around £1000.00 to the cost of purchase so when dealers are asking £6995.00+ for a Surf am I wrong to think this is too high. Peeps on this forum have said not to pay more than £5000 for a Surf so are the dealers in our area just taking the $$$$ or am I wrong?

Interested to know what you think?

Cheers, Kenny
I really dont know what to do M8. Everyone says that its a buyers market

[Panrixx]

Kenny,

You may want to consider buying your motor from a private seller, providing you can take someone along with you who knows what to look for. You could start by looking at what other forum members are selling.

You'll get a better price but loose the 3 months warranty (what ever that's actually worth).

[Kenny_Notts]

Kenny,

You may want to consider buying your motor from a private seller, providing you can take someone along with you who knows what to look for. You could start by looking at what other forum members are selling.

You'll get a better price but loose the 3 months warranty (what ever that's actually worth).

Hey ya M8.

Yeah I have considered that and pretty much decided against it for several reasons.

I would like a fresh import (not unreasonable) and on a more serious note, I have more legal protection (Sale Of Good Act, Trading Standards and so on) if I buy from a company or dealer. This is NOT any against anyone in this forum who sells Surfs as I am sure they are good honest people.

[Sancho]

Hi Ya Dog Book,

Nice to meet a Surf owner in Nottingham.

Its really nerve wrecking looking at 2nd hand cars in the first place let alone one I hardly know anything about (like a Surf).

The only dealers I have managed to find in the Notts area that actually have decent Surfs seem, to be blunt, a shade dodgy. So far I have been to Junction 24 4x4 near Long Eaton, Aria Motors on the way to Ilkeston and Cestrefeld Service Station at Chesterfield (thanks Roger_H).

They all have back street or shoddy sales areas and the salemen themselves seem out and out shifty when I start asking them questions about the car (has the cam belt been changed, were the fluids changed from Jap to UK when it was imported and so on) and dont seem to have the correct answers. They all to a man, claim thier Surfs are grade 4 but only one out of the 8+ I have looked at have been, the rest were Grade 3 - 3.5.

Not to mention that all the Surfs are over priced. I have read this and other forums every night for what seems like weeks now and checked other dealer prices around the country so have a fairly good idea of what price Surfs should be going for. None of the Surfs have any kind of BIMTA check and two of the three dealers claim they have never heard of BIMTA.


So heres how I see it. Once I buy my Surf, I wil have to get the cam belt checked to see if it need changing and if so, have it done. Get all the fluids changed anyway (to be safe). Have the Surf serviced by a trusted Garage or toyota dealer, a lot of the surfs I have looked at have worn or hard tyres so a new set of tyres would be needed. New brakes and discs and so on and so on. Everything that the good people of this forum recomend you have done to ya new Surf before you can really enjoy it.

Now in my book all this is gonna add around £1000.00 to the cost of purchase so when dealers are asking £6995.00+ for a Surf am I wrong to think this is too high. Peeps on this forum have said not to pay more than £5000 for a Surf so are the dealers in our area just taking the $$$$ or am I wrong?

Interested to know what you think?

Cheers, Kenny
I really dont know what to do M8. Everyone says that its a buyers market

Kenny,

I think you're gone round in too many circles and done your own head in.

Firstly, the price you pay depends on what you're buying. A late 3rd gen can be up to £10k, but £8k seems to be about the mark. Early 3rd gens seem to be around the £4,500 mark, which is also about the most you would pay for a very good, very late 2nd gen.

You don't really need to check the cambelt. It just needs doing every 100,000kms. If it's got less than 100,000 on it, the cambelt's fine. If it's got more, ask for proof that it was changed at 100,000. If they don't have any proof, it probably has been changed anyway on a 3rd gen, not so likely on a 2nd.

TonyN will do a full service and fluid change for you for £250 if one hasn't been done already. He'll check your brakes for you too.

It kind of depends how worn the tires are, but there's no 'need' to change them unless they're illegal or dangerous. Some of the Jap ones have got a reputation for being a bit skiddy, but you'd notice on a test drive - just put your foot down as you go round a mini roundabout.

It is a buyer's market, but don't forget a Surf is a big, high-specced and relatively expensive bit of kit to start with. They're never going to cost the same as a second hand nova. There are a fair few dodgy surfs around, but these tend to be more the earlier 2.4 2nd gens in the £2,000-£3,000 price range.

I am with Panrixx, the best price you are likely to get is a private seller and the best quality you're likely to get is from a forum member, because most of us get any little niggles fixed rather than ignoring them or getting some dodgy garage to lash it up. Have a look in the for sale section. If there's one you like the sound of, ask any questions and you should get a straight answer. If you need someone to have a look with, ask if there's someone local who will come with you. Most people will go if they can - everyone on here is a varying level of Surf geek and is more than happy to have a nosy at another Surf, even if someone else wants to buy it.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Geek!!!???

[Sancho]

Hey ya M8.

Yeah I have considered that and pretty much decided against it for several reasons.

I would like a fresh import (not unreasonable) and on a more serious note, I have more legal protection (Sale Of Good Act, Trading Standards and so on) if I buy from a company or dealer. This is NOT any against anyone in this forum who sells Surfs as I am sure they are good honest people.

I take your point of sales of goods act etc. I would personally rather buy something I had faith in the first place than buy something with a degree of legal protection if it went wrong, but that's just me.

I don't understand why people want fresh imports, I would go for one that had already been 'anglicised' every time.

[Sancho]

Geek!!!???

Sorry, enthusiast

[joker??]

Geek!!!???

you help people out vince and thats all the thanks you get : disappoin

sancho's right kenny

[MattF]

Dealer doesn't always mean safer. There are that many ways they can skimp on
a warranty, I wouldn't spend too much time concentrating on that if I were you. I
got mine from a dealer down Ilkeston way, T.D Quinn. Nothing fancy, no warranty
specified, a couple of problems that I knew about, and a good price at the time.
Have to say, as a dealer, they were straight forward enough. Mine had been over
in this country a couple of years, but the chassis was still mint. Rocker cover gasket
peeing oil all over, but that's only a gasket. I had mine completely serviced
as soon as I got her. Expect to pay upto about £700 for a full service with all oils,
belts and everything else. One thing I would say every time is replace the cam
belt and tensioner. It really is not worth taking the risk of the belt snapping.

Whether you go for a fresh import or not, you will have the same problems either
way, which at the end of the day, will mostly be age related. These vehicles are
not young pups. Rubber perishes and things wear. That will happen no matter
where you get it from. Just use common sense and look for one in good order.
The rest you can sort later.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Just use common sense and look for one in good order.
The rest you can sort later.

......with the £1000 you saved by not buying from a dealer!

[Bogus]

I think youre being way too over cautious, youre getting too tied up in the desire to have all the t,s crossed and the i,s dotted. legal protection, RAC Inspections,. Listen to what everyone is saying, take a knowledgeable friend, you,ll probably know anyway if somethings a shed or not anyway, and dont close youre mind to ones that have been in country a while, dont get too wrapped up in colour, underslung/rear mounted spares etc etc. Just find one that youre happy with, that you feel is good, that your knowledgable friend thinks is OK and you,ll be fine. Ive had a lot of second hand cars, purchased privately in all kinds of price ranges going back more than 30 yrs. ( yes Im old)and NEVER been disappointed yet.
You might even find yourself buying a blue one ( god forbid), but thats another matter

Let Go, Live a little, take a chance.

Bogus

[Kenny_Notts]

Kenny,

I think you're gone round in too many circles and done your own head in.

Firstly, the price you pay depends on what you're buying. A late 3rd gen can be up to £10k, but £8k seems to be about the mark. Early 3rd gens seem to be around the £4,500 mark, which is also about the most you would pay for a very good, very late 2nd gen.

You don't really need to check the cambelt. It just needs doing every 100,000kms. If it's got less than 100,000 on it, the cambelt's fine. If it's got more, ask for proof that it was changed at 100,000. If they don't have any proof, it probably has been changed anyway on a 3rd gen, not so likely on a 2nd.

TonyN will do a full service and fluid change for you for £250 if one hasn't been done already. He'll check your brakes for you too.

It kind of depends how worn the tires are, but there's no 'need' to change them unless they're illegal or dangerous. Some of the Jap ones have got a reputation for being a bit skiddy, but you'd notice on a test drive - just put your foot down as you go round a mini roundabout.

It is a buyer's market, but don't forget a Surf is a big, high-specced and relatively expensive bit of kit to start with. They're never going to cost the same as a second hand nova. There are a fair few dodgy surfs around, but these tend to be more the earlier 2.4 2nd gens in the £2,000-£3,000 price range.

I am with Panrixx, the best price you are likely to get is a private seller and the best quality you're likely to get is from a forum member, because most of us get any little niggles fixed rather than ignoring them or getting some dodgy garage to lash it up. Have a look in the for sale section. If there's one you like the sound of, ask any questions and you should get a straight answer. If you need someone to have a look with, ask if there's someone local who will come with you. Most people will go if they can - everyone on here is a varying level of Surf geek and is more than happy to have a nosy at another Surf, even if someone else wants to buy it.

Hey ya M8,

(Big sigh) I know you are right in what you say, so is Panrixx and Bushwhacker - you guys are the experts after all and I am just a potential newbie surf owner.

OK, I gonna level with you guys. This isnt a sob story or owt like that - its just the plain truth of why I am so cautious and nervous.

Over the last 18 Months I have had two complete horror storys with so called "main dealers". I wont go into detail or we will be here all day and you guys will get bored.

All my life I have wanted a 4x4, i dreamed of it for as long as I can remember. I worked hard and saved every penny but could never quite save enough to get a decent nearly new one. Just about 2 years ago my dad was dianosed with Altziemers and I had to watch him turn into a vegitable (broke my heart). He then contracted pancrotic cancer and died from its effects. To cut a long story short, he left me a sum of money for the specific purpose of getting my 4x4. This broke my heart even further and I then suffered a nervious breakdown, lost my business, my home and my partner at the time.

Fast forward 6 months. I became the very very VERY proud owner of a 2 year old Toyota Rav4. Again to cut the story down, the dual mass flywheel failed on the Rav 3 times. The dealer (Listers Toyota) refused to accept there was a problem and Trading Standards became involved. After a very messing and nasty period (I ended back in hospital through stress) I got my money back. I wont be vulger enough to talk sums of money but Im sure you guys know the cost of a nearly new 4x4.

I then spent the next 2 months researching and reading about other 4x4's on the www, in books and magazines. It had to be the right choice, I had to get it right.

I decided that what I needed was a Mitsubishi Shogun as I have the need to pull a Tow-A-Van trailor once or twice a week. I found what I thought was a good one at Chris Variava (Main Mitsubishi dealer) here in Nottingham. I went to see them, I sat the manager down and told him about my experience with Listers Toyota and what effect it had on my health. I also said that if they (the dealer) had any doubts about the Shogun then they should tell me now as if anything went wrong there would be hel to pay. I explained that I knew my rights under the Sale Of Goods Act and have a great relationship with Nottingham Trading Standards.

They bent over backwards to satisfy me that all would be OK. I did ALL the checks you can think of (RAC, HPI) and it all looked good. On the test drive I noticed that the car pulled to the left rather badly so the dealer said this would be fixed.

I went ahead with the purchase and all seemed ok. 3 days later, I took the Shogun out on a local motorway and noticed the "pulling to the left" had not been fixed. I called the dealer and they said it had been fixed and that the vehicle was "Camber Concious" anyway. I insisted they took it back and fixed it and they said they would but at my cost.

Knowing that under the sale of goods act you should reject a car as soon as possible if you are not happy I gave them one last chance to fix it and they again said only if I pay. I contacted Trading standards and the vehicle was rejected. I was also told that Trading Standards has had quite a few complaints about this particular dealer. Anyway to cut it short again, more nastyness followed, legal letters flying back and forth, trading standards officers visiting the dealer and a automotive engineers report later - I got a full refund. The engineers report concluded that the shogun did indeed pull unreasonably to the left and that the chassie had probibly recieved a thump that had caused the wheels to mis-align - again probibly by taking it round a off road course.

So here I am - warey and mis-trustful of car dealers in general and with nothing but bad experiences to go on. The only thing I do know for sure is that as long as you know your rights, buy from a registered business and never ever pay cash then you stand a prety good chance of getting ya money back if it turns out ya bought a pig of a car.

Even further to this, and this is from A Trading Standards Officer who is expert on the motor trade - pay using ya credit card coz you get extra protection. From my investigations into buying a Surf, most surf dealers wont accept credit cards and when I ask why they say its coz of the charge they get. Well I dont accept that coz they can pass that charge onto the customer. I mean, 2 - 4% extra on top of a £5-6000 purchase isnt that much especially if you bear in mind the extra legal protection you get. The Trading Standards guy who handled both my cases said in his experience a lot of (and I DONT mean any one in this forum) of 2nd hand dealers know the legal protection a CC transaction gives and that why they dont take CC's.

Any way guys, this is my story and I hope it explains all the questions I have asked and all the ones I probibly will ask in the future. Thank you all for your patiance.

Kenny_Notts