Government review of veg fuels

[Bludger]

Is it me, or is this just the governments way of ending the SVO debate once and for all?

We all know that SVO & WVO meets the requirements set out in the original 'BioDiesel' statement. The government also knows this, but decided that SVO was too easy a method for people to use, so introduced the higher tax, hiked the price of SVO so there is no monetary advantage to using SVO.

The Govt also knows that most people would be unwilling to produce Biodiesel due to the dangerous chemicals and the time and effort involved.

Many people have been proving to the Govt that SVO meets all the requirements of Biodiesel, so this looks to me like they have realised they won't be able to keep SVO as a Non-Biodiesel product forever, so they are nipping it in the bud straight away and saying that SVO will be excluded reglardless of it's enviromental advantages.

Once again the £ is more important than the trees.

[drdan]

I reckon it all boils down to whether some slack-jawed pen pusher is in charge of the review or someone with a good set of brain-cells! We shall see. You're right though Peter, the more letters they receive the more likely they are to have a rethink!

Thanks for the info Maurice, you learn something new everyday.

I'm off to a festival tonight for a few days; the Big Chill at Eastnor castle. With any luck the field will be lovely and muddy for the ol' Surf to play in!!!

[CaptainBeaky]

I have had a reply!!

Dear Sir

Thank you for your e-mail which has been passed to me. I am grateful to you for taking the time to reply to our review and can assure you that your comments will be fully considered when any decisions on this matter are being made.
I should add some points that you may find of help. Firstly, vegetable oil used as a road fuel is liable to duty at the biodiesel rate or as an additive in road fuel depending on whether the fuel meets the fiscal criteria for biodiesel or not. There is also a legal obligation to register with HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) as a producer or user of road fuel that has not borne duty. Vegetable oil used as an additive or replacement for ordinary diesel is classed as a fuel substitute (if it does not meet the legal definition of biodiesel) and has the same duty rate as ordinary diesel. The duty rate for biodiesel is 20 pence per litre (ppl) lower than the rate for ordinary diesel. Guidance on these issues is contained in Public Notice 179E "Biofuels and other fuel substitutes", which is available from the HMRC website (www.hmrc.gov.uk).

I am sure you will also be aware that often the description "SVO" is a very loose definition of what the fuel being used is, and if, for example, the fuel consists of say 5% thinner and 95% SVO then this fuel would not qualify.

You ask what grounds those who are opposed to the inclusion of SVO within the fiscal definition of biodiesel have cited. I should perhaps start with the most obvious which is that biodiesel and SVO are different commodities. The biofuels Directive for example differentiates biodiesel from pure vegetable oil. There is therefore no certainty that an SVO will be a biodiesel for UK tax purposes unless it meets the UK's criteria for biodiesel.

You may also have seen the attached summary of evidence produced by the French Petroleum Institute last October which cited a number of problems caused by using SVO and the consequent impacts these had on emission, performance and engine wear.

Yours faithfully,

Michael Lyttle
Transport Tax Team
Environment & Transport Taxes Division
Room 3/E1
100 Parliament Street
London
SW1A 2BQ

[CaptainBeaky]

Couldn't upload the attachment - I will try to host it on my site over the weekend.

[CaptainBeaky]

And my reply...


#########################


Dear Mr Lyttle

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email.

In response to the points you raise, may I start by quoting directly from HMRC website:

1. The current fiscal definition of biodiesel is set out in section 2AA of the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979, as follows:

(1) In this Act “biodiesel” means diesel quality liquid fuel that -

(a) is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil,

SVO is by definition produced from biomass.

(b) the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight, and

Manufacturer's analyses (freely available) indicate that food grade vegetable oil is well in excess of 96.5% w/v ester content.

(c) the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight or is nil.

Again, manufacturer's analyses show sulphur levels well below 50ppm.

(2) In subsection (1) -

(a) "diesel quality" means capable of being used for the same purposes as heavy oil;

SVO will run diesel engines, either straight or in blends with mineral diesel (which is duty-paid). The percentage blend that will run satisfactorily varies dependent upon vehicle type (i.e. fuel pump and injector design), weather conditions and oil type.

(b) "liquid" does not include any substance that is gaseous at a temperature of 15 degrees C and under a pressure of 1013.25 millibars;

SVO is quite definitely liquid under these conditions.

(c) "biomass" means vegetable and animal substances constituting the biodegradable fraction of -

(i) products, wastes and residues from agriculture, forestry and related activities, or

SVO is also quite definitely a product of agriculture.

(ii) industrial and municipal waste.

2. This definition was introduced by the Finance Act 2002 following consultation with stakeholders. The aim of the definition is to ensure that any fuels which are claimed to qualify for the biodiesel duty rate (currently 27.10 pence per litre) are in fact biodiesel rather than mineral diesel. For a fuel to qualify for this duty rate it must meet the definition in full.

##############END QUOTE################

As noted above, SVO meets the fiscal definition as set out in the Finance Act 2002, modifying the Hydrocarbon Oils Duties Act of 1979. There is no mention anywhere in either piece of legislation about transesterification or other modification - the description can be boiled down to the physical (conforming to a certain set of chemical parameters) and the functional (it can be used to fuel a diesel engine).

The argument that not all diesel engines can run long-term on SVO is frankly a red herring - diesel engines are currently set up to run on a fuel with a particular viscosity/lubricity/specific heat profile i.e. derv. Many diesel engines can run long-term on unmodified vegetable oils, and have done many tens of thousands of miles on it - it should be remembered that Dr Rudolf Diesel's original design was to run on peanut oil, to reduce the usage of fossil fuels and to encourage the agricultural sector.

There is, despite heavy discouragement from HMRC, a thriving community of biodiesel users and manufacturers in this country, who are doing the research and the long-term trials, on their own vehicles, and in the vast majority of cases, they are doing this for their own interest and for the benefit of the environment, as there is very little financial incentive.

The original intention of the reduced duty level on biodiesel was apparently to encourage the production and use of biodiesel - it would be, in my view, a severely retrograde step to penalise the small-scale user/producer merely to avoid a small drop in tax raised, or to pander to the large manufacturers.

I am, incidentally, aware of the obligation to register with HMRC on form EX103 prior to using any form of fuel that that not had duty levied at source - I have not as yet started using biofuels, as my initial research has indicated that it is not currently a financially viable proposition.


Yours faithfully

[Apache]

I reckon it all boils down to whether some slack-jawed pen pusher is in charge of the review or someone with a good set of brain-cells! We shall see. You're right though Peter, the more letters they receive the more likely they are to have a rethink!

Thanks for the info Maurice, you learn something new everyday.

I'm off to a festival tonight for a few days; the Big Chill at Eastnor castle. With any luck the field will be lovely and muddy for the ol' Surf to play in!!!

Hope the field won't be muddy! (and doubt it very much too. The ground is very hard / dry here at the mo) I'm going there to the model show in a couple of weeks and would hate the 'runways' to be full of ruts!

(Eastnor is about 5 miles from me - give us a wave!)

[Apache]

I am too angry about the Govt double talk on this subject to be eloquent, and tend to agree with Vince.

Bunch of two faced money grabbing cheating sh1ts who are more concerned with their own careers and not upsetting Shell / BP et al than being greener!

[drdan]

Nice response Peter. I too have received a reply, not as long as yours...

"Many thanks for your comments below.

We are grateful for taking the time to reply to us on this issue and I can
assure you that we will take your views on this issue into consideration
when we decide how to progress this review.


Michael Lyttle
Transport Tax Team
Environment & Transport Taxes Division
Room 3/E1
100 Parliament Street
London
SW1A 2BQ"

They've not even bothered with a Dear Sir, or whatever. At least you got some sort of a personalised response. It's looking like they already have made their minds up about the conclusions of their review before it has begun. Still we shall wait and see.

[drdan]

Incidentally, the Big Chill festival at Eastnor was excellent. Did get to take the Surf on a bumpy unsurfaced back track for a quarter of an hour, that was fun. No mud to play in though. The ground should be good for your model day Apache! Have fun.

[fergus]

veery well written replies lads.

[legendgamesmaster]

Dr Dan

Query for Dr Dan:

is it true (do you know?) that most methanol is fossil-fuel derived (via fractionation etc), and not biologically dervied from fermentation??

I've heard it is. If so, that makes trans-esterified bio diesel a bit less green...

any idea?

[drdan]

Query for Dr Dan:

is it true (do you know?) that most methanol is fossil-fuel derived (via fractionation etc), and not biologically dervied from fermentation??

I'm not sure. I'll look into it.

Watch this space...

[drdan]

check out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

Quick answer is that methanol is made from natural gas. So it is true that biodiesel is not as green as was thought.

[drdan]

also it is worth noting that the synthetic process needs high temperatures and pressures, a catalyst and a supply of water. It all adds to the carbon footprint.

[legendgamesmaster]

also it is worth noting that the synthetic process needs high temperatures and pressures, a catalyst and a supply of water. It all adds to the carbon footprint.

Oh how they try to white-wash us eh? (er, green wash us?)