sorry going political

[Chillitt]

as long as both side think the best way to deal with a wasps nest is beat it with a stick, there will be no peace in the middle east.

[stimpy30]

But our forces are set up in some great posts around the world that in theory, no enemy should get near our countries!!!

It takes teachers to teach and forces to enforce it! For queen for country!!

as a qusetion with now intent how many people do you persoanly know who hath either been shot injured or killed or family members killed in defence of a piece of land in an unknown area where the natives dont speak engilsh . nearly all the ones i know or knew where supposed to be in defnece of the realm or country. p.s if u have kids or perhaps will does that mean that you would be happy for them to take a bullet in the head if they join the forces??????? i know i owuldent be

[laser_jock99]

how many people do you persoanly know who hath either been shot injured or killed or family members killed in defence of a piece of land in an unknown area where the natives dont speak engilsh

The fighting has been going on in Iraq over the oil since the First World when over 60,000 British and even more Indian troops died in appalling conditions fighting the Turkish empire for control of the oil fields in Southern Iraq. My great grandfather being one of the casualties:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/certifica...asualty=865161

In the later part of WW1 many soldiers were conscripts and not volunteers or career soldiers. I guess they didn't want to be there either but they had no choice. That is a distinct difference.

[da SLUG man]

most of my family have joined the armed forces to learn a trade... not to get killed!

there are only so many jobs to go round at the Nissan factory!

[Philip]

Very quick word.

Does war mean WE ARE RIGHT. If two football teams can't play for 90 mins without dirty goeings on on the field,then how can two countries fight fairly.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A NICE WAR
and there has never been a war where innocent civilians have not been killed.
Most wars degenerate into both sides commiting atrocities even the side you favour.
Peace and love to all.

The oldest hippy in the world,
Philip

[Apache]

most of my family have joined the armed forces to learn a trade... not to get killed!

there are only so many jobs to go round at the Nissan factory!

However you look at it, the Forces main purpose is defence of the Realm. On signing up, that is your primary duty. It's a kind of calculated risk that you may have to serve in a war (and possibly lay your life on the line), but the benefits are there too re. learning a trade.

[charvell]

However you look at it, the Forces main purpose is defence of the Realm. On signing up, that is your primary duty. It's a kind of calculated risk that you may have to serve in a war (and possibly lay your life on the line), but the benefits are there too re. learning a trade.

That is spot on. Its part of the job a risk you have to be prepared for when you sign on the dotted line. I have been in 3 conflicts, shot people and been shot at. My family accepted the fact that I might get killed. Thats where the British army training is the best in the world, we have fewer casualties. The middle east has been going on for 3000 years or more. Its one of those situations where there will be no winner.

[M35A2]

I will put my 10 pence to this post.

OK, let’s look at it this way. I actually admire the Israeli's as they don't take any sh*t from anyone. It is sad that both sides can't live side by side, but it's not the Israelis that are the intolerant ones, it's the Arabs. Iran has said publicly that they want the Israeli race wiped off the face of the planet. Syria takes the same line. So, they arm the various militias in the region to fight againsed Israel, as they haven't got the bottle to do it themselves. Look at Iran, a fundamentalist Islamic state. They are without doubt looking at developing Nuclear weapons. The Western democracies also have Nuclear weapons, but they are a weapon of last resort. If you are dealing with a race that believes that to die fighting means you are a martyre, then the possibility of that race using Nuclear weapons is a very real one.

Israel is surrounded by hostile countries that want to see its destruction. Although Israel is using the best technology to minimise civilian casualties, the Hezbollah hasn't got the same worries. Civilians in their eyes are a justifiable target, as they want all Israelis to be wiped out.

Whether you agree or not about Israel being formed in 1948, it's here and it's here to stay. If you had been born into a country that for 6 generations hasn't known peace, then I suspect your views would be different.

The current conflict is just a side line. What we need to be worried about is if Iran develops Nuclear weapons. Although it's painful to see, if these states win this war, then there will be very serious consequences for us all.

[John h]

Well Said !

Having served my time , and can't believe it's 25 years next year that we all sailed off to the south atlantic on a jaunt called corporate, I have to say does any one have the 'bottle' or audacity to stand up and be counted these days ? without fear that they will fall foul of political correctness? Hell we all hated the Japs for long enough but we love driving their excellent inscruitable 4x4s !!!

My Son wears his airborne badge with pride thank God and his mum worries every time the news comes on . But as he told me 'it would make it so much easier if they knew that the people back in Blighty gave their 100% support and didn't just sit on the fence an the armchair warriors didn't moan so much !

As an ex aircrew I had the pleasure of training support OCU with some IAF crew and have to say they are extremely well trained and competent and are under no illusions that no matter what they do it will be wrong in the eyes of western media, but hey 'they have the bottle'

end of sermon

[Apache]

'it would make it so much easier if they knew that the people back in Blighty gave their 100% support and didn't just sit on the fence an the armchair warriors didn't moan so much !

Hear hear! Once we deploy our troops, our own countrymen, the people we rely on to defend our freedoms and our way of life, then we should be 100% supportive of them whatever our personal views of the rights and wrongs of the particular conflict.

If you dont agree, the the ballot box is there to change the status quo.

[MattF]

Bugger, couldn't resist posting again. The point of debate in any
conflict is never whether it is morally right or wrong from the point
of what the troops have to do once there. At the end of the day, wars
are human nature, but they are never moral. The problem is when
the Powers-That-Be in charge of those troops are using them for fiscal
gain.

If our troops are in a country which has no relation to ourselves in any
form, but may reach a state where if we do not intercede they may
threaten the safety of the Realm, then yes, that is a countable measure.
Pure fiscal gain, however, will never be so.

I know this will go down like a lead brick, but even with the internal state
of affairs in this country, one used to be proud to be British. Nowadays,
what are we other than America's wannabee's, thanks to a certain
Government.

[POPEYE]

Well said M35A2, Totaly agree, I've always been pro israrel'i really, When your surrounded by two faced fanatics you have no choice but to fight back with everthing you 've got, imagine rockets launched into england on a day'ly basis! Also its all too easy to knock the yanks and america has its faults but i know i'd sooner live in a world dominated by america than one doninated by the likes of sadam, If it was'nt for america entering the 1st and 2nd world wars for whatever reasons, we might all be doing the goose step now, we came that close!.

[charvell]

Well Said !

Having served my time , and can't believe it's 25 years next year that we all sailed off to the south atlantic on a jaunt called corporate, I have to say does any one have the 'bottle' or audacity to stand up and be counted these days ? without fear that they will fall foul of political correctness? Hell we all hated the Japs for long enough but we love driving their excellent inscruitable 4x4s !!!

My Son wears his airborne badge with pride thank God and his mum worries every time the news comes on . But as he told me 'it would make it so much easier if they knew that the people back in Blighty gave their 100% support and didn't just sit on the fence an the armchair warriors didn't moan so much !

As an ex aircrew I had the pleasure of training support OCU with some IAF crew and have to say they are extremely well trained and competent and are under no illusions that no matter what they do it will be wrong in the eyes of western media, but hey 'they have the bottle'

end of sermon

As I said we have the best Army in the world. I was a PTI in 2 Para for 12 years and have trained many young men and placed them in to a state of readyness to fight as Airbourne Soldiers. and they are proud of that.

[laser_jock99]

.....imagine rockets launched into england on a daily basis!

Don't have to imagine- there has been ongoing conflict in Britain for the last thirty years. Let us not forget the UK had to put up with similar horror week in-week out and it's still not over yet.

Over 30 years, the IRA and other paramilitary terror groups have murdered 302 police officers, 651 soldiers and reservists plus around 2,000 civilians (exact figure unknown)....

The yearly death toll:

2006 1 (2)
2005 5 (7)
2004 2 (3)
2003 10 (3)
2002 11 (5)
2001 16
2000 19
1999 8
1998 55
1997 21
1996 18
1995 9
1994 64
1993 88
1992 89
1991 96
1990 81
1989 75
1988 104
1987 98
1986 61
1985 57
1984 69
1983 85
1982 110
1981 113
1980 80
1979 121
1978 81
1977 111
1976 295
1975 260
1974 294
1973 253
1972 479
1971 171
1970 26
1969 16

In addition to those killed there were around 47,000 seriously injured. Plus:

Shooting incidents 37,000
Armed robberies 22,500
Persons imprisoned for paramilitary offences 19,600
Bombings and attempted bombings 16,200
Arson incidents 2,200

You don't have to go too far to find a conflict.

[deegz]

Don't have to imagine- there has been ongoing conflict in Britain for the last thirty years. Let us not forget the UK had to put up with similar horror week in-week out and it's still not over yet.

Over 30 years, the IRA and other paramilitary terror groups have murdered 302 police officers, 651 soldiers and reservists plus around 2,000 civilians (exact figure unknown)....

The yearly death toll:

2006 1 (2)
2005 5 (7)
2004 2 (3)
2003 10 (3)
2002 11 (5)
2001 16
2000 19
1999 8
1998 55
1997 21
1996 18
1995 9
1994 64
1993 88
1992 89
1991 96
1990 81
1989 75
1988 104
1987 98
1986 61
1985 57
1984 69
1983 85
1982 110
1981 113
1980 80
1979 121
1978 81
1977 111
1976 295
1975 260
1974 294
1973 253
1972 479
1971 171
1970 26
1969 16

In addition to those killed there were around 47,000 seriously injured. Plus:

Shooting incidents 37,000
Armed robberies 22,500
Persons imprisoned for paramilitary offences 19,600
Bombings and attempted bombings 16,200
Arson incidents 2,200

You don't have to go too far to find a conflict.

just come to mine when the wife is drinking red wine