Damaged Surf purchasing questions

[papacroft]

Hello
I've just viewed a surf. On the front nearside the bull bar and the bumper have been damaged. The extent of the damage is that the bumper is pushed in. This has happened in Japan before it has been imported. Now to the questions. It does not appear that the wing has been damaged. However the owner did mention that turning the steering wheel, there is a clunk on this side where one metal part is catching another. I do not know whether this is the bump stop or is the result of the damage. Now to the questions:
<b>Question:</b> Does the mechanical sound of the bump stop occur at the furthest travel of the steering?
<b>Question:</b> Could the vehicle have been written off in Japan and then sold at auction or are there strict guidelines that would prevent?
<b>Question:</b> Would the SVA pick up any serious problems if the vehicle had suffered any serious damage?
At the moment I am suspecting that the damage is only superficial. If there had been work in repairing the front wing and other items, then I would have also thought that the bumper would have been sorted.
The vehicle also has a japanese service book with stamps up to 43000km's. The odometer reads 45000km's. This seems really low but the engine looks brand new.
<b>Question:</b> Is it easy to adjust the mileage reading?
I ask this because I checked the coolant and level and it was quite low. It was also a filthy brown colour (it does contain antifreeze, by taste...) and I don't think it is contaminated with oil. I will have to check when the last service occurred as this might explain the poor condition of the coolant.
<b>Question:</b> Would there be a shipping document that contains the mileage so that I can verify it has not been tampered with?
Final question on the chassis. The guy selling the vehicle believed that the series 2 chassis is the same as the series 3. The reason for this is that the chassis number starts with KZN which he said is the same as the series 3.
<b>Question:</b>Can anyone confirm this?
Any help with any of these questions is most appreciated.
Regards
Mark..

[rusty]

Question: Does the mechanical sound of the bump stop occur at the furthest travel of the steering?

Have you had a look underneath?- if so did anything seem out of place/alignment??

Question: Would the SVA pick up any serious problems if the vehicle had suffered any serious damage?

Unsure - it depends who is doing the SVA - there are guys on here who have imported their own and each SVA has turned up different anomalies

At the moment I am suspecting that the damage is only superficial. If there had been work in repairing the front wing and other items, then I would have also thought that the bumper would have been sorted.
The vehicle also has a japanese service book with stamps up to 43000km's. The odometer reads 45000km's. This seems really low but the engine looks brand new.

The weather is different in Japan and the vehicles don't tend to suffer the same visual damages

The guy selling the vehicle believed that the series 2 chassis is the same as the series 3. The reason for this is that the chassis number starts with KZN which he said is the same as the series 3.

Is this dealer used to selling Landrovers??? - the only thing in "series" is wiring 2nd Gen chassis are different to 3rd Gen chassis.

I ask this because I checked the coolant and level and it was quite low. It was also a filthy brown colour (it does contain antifreeze, by taste...) and I don't think it is contaminated with oil. I will have to check when the last service occurred as this might explain the poor condition of the coolant.<b>Question:</b> Would there be a shipping document that contains the mileage so that I can verify it has not been tampered with?
why are you tasting it???

What size is the engine???? - It has been highly recommended by other owners that the anti freeze/coolant should be changed ASAP (preferable by a reputable dealer)

Go back and ask the dealer if he knows whether there are any head problems with the 2.4 diesels and post his reply - should be interesting
How much is it going for???
With all the damage (that is visible) are you going to be happy purchasing this vehicle??

On a lighter note - they are good trucks - reliable/comfortable and practical. Don't be put off. Shop around before you buy - there a plenty of motors about.

[andy]

Hello
I've just viewed a surf. On the front nearside the bull bar and the bumper have been damaged. The extent of the damage is that the bumper is pushed in. This has happened in Japan before it has been imported. Now to the questions. It does not appear that the wing has been damaged. However the owner did mention that turning the steering wheel, there is a clunk on this side where one metal part is catching another. I do not know whether this is the bump stop or is the result of the damage. Now to the questions:
<b>Question:</b> Does the mechanical sound of the bump stop occur at the furthest travel of the steering?
Yes it does , but the suspension could be pushed back .
<b>Question:</b> Could the vehicle have been written off in Japan and then sold at auction or are there strict guidelines that would prevent?
Does the owner have the De-Reg certificate from Japan , and what duty has been paid on it , a breaker is charged at a different rate to a running motor ,
<b>Question:</b> Would the SVA pick up any serious problems if the vehicle had suffered any serious damage?
Yes they will inspect the vehicle with a fine tooth comb , but you dont say what age it is , it could be over 10yrs old so it would not need an SVA .
At the moment I am suspecting that the damage is only superficial. If there had been work in repairing the front wing and other items, then I would have also thought that the bumper would have been sorted.
The vehicle also has a japanese service book with stamps up to 43000km's. The odometer reads 45000km's. This seems really low but the engine looks brand new.
<b>Question:</b> Is it easy to adjust the mileage reading?
Yes .
I ask this because I checked the coolant and level and it was quite low. It was also a filthy brown colour (it does contain antifreeze, by taste...) and I don't think it is contaminated with oil. I will have to check when the last service occurred as this might explain the poor condition of the coolant.
<b>Question:</b> Would there be a shipping document that contains the mileage so that I can verify it has not been tampered with?
Most vehicles come with stickers on the windows that will show the auction house that it was sold at along with mileage , but most dealers will destroy them , best bet is to get it BIMTA checked .
Final question on the chassis. The guy selling the vehicle believed that the series 2 chassis is the same as the series 3. The reason for this is that the chassis number starts with KZN which he said is the same as the series 3.
A KZN130 is a 2nd gen surf , nothing like a 3rd .
<b>Question:</b>Can anyone confirm this?
Any help with any of these questions is most appreciated.
Regards
Mark..

[Pete]

Personaly I would walk away from it and find one that isn't damaged or causing concern in other ways. If your not sure about it it's not the car for you. You just seem to know when you find the right one. There are plenty around. Just my opinion, but there you go!!!
Pete

[Koi]

Personaly I would walk away from it and find one that isn't damaged or causing concern in other ways. If your not sure about it it's not the car for you. You just seem to know when you find the right one. There are plenty around. Just my opinion, but there you go!!!
Pete

Yeah I would walk away, the fact that the dealer says series 2 are the same as series 3 says it all for me, bye bye. He's talking from the wrong the wrong end of his body and that just the start of the c##p god knows what other bull he's gonna come out with. I can see someone buying this and the dealer then washing his hands of them.
Unless of course he only wants £500 then its worth a go.

[papacroft]

why are you tasting it???
Actually I got my friend to taste. He enjoys the taste of antifreeze

What size is the engine???? - It has been highly recommended by other owners that the anti freeze/coolant should be changed ASAP (preferable by a reputable dealer)

Go back and ask the dealer if he knows whether there are any head problems with the 2.4 diesels and post his reply - should be interesting
It's a 3 litre.

How much is it going for??? £5395ono. I think he's a failed dealer ie. bought a few cars to sell and has got stuck with them. The car has 9months MOT and 3 months tax, because he will have had to register it as he is not a big dealer. Also this means he has paid the VAT and will not be able to charge VAT on the sale, because he is a small trader not VAT registered.
With all the damage (that is visible) are you going to be happy purchasing this vehicle??
I could imagine that the bumper could be re-chromed. At the price with negotiation, I classify it more as a work horse. For an SSR-G also 94 model but on a M plate, I negotiated to 6500. Potentially, if I can get the car for around 5 or under, I have an amount of money that can be thrown at it.

On a lighter note - they are good trucks - reliable/comfortable and practical. Don't be put off. Shop around before you buy - there a plenty of motors about.[/QUOTE]
Thank's for your help

[wibblywobbly]

The dealer will know the answers

If this guy is a reputable dealer and he imported it then he will know all of the answers to all of the questions that you are asking. He either knew what he was bidding for, or has an agent who found him what he was looking for.

If he imported it as a write off then he knows that.

He has the chassis number and the de-registration certificate. The de-registration is in Japanese, and there is always an English translation with it. If he doesn't have these documents then you won't be able to register it in this country. The DVLA want both copies, and nowadays they conduct their own checks with the Japanese authorities before giving you a licence plate number. You will find that they now make you wait 2-3 days before completing the registration formalities.

He will also have a Bill of Lading. This is issued when the vehicle is put onto the boat. It details the vehicle, accesories, and more importantly the price paid at auction. You can add £1000 to the value to cover shipping. (So if he is letting you have it for £1500, then he only paid £500 for it......scrap value??).

The de-registration certificate provides details of the last owner in Japan, the mileage (in kilometers) etc.

There is also an auction grade, they go from 1-5. 1 is a pile of metal, 5 is a concours spec. These are 'official' grades so that you know what you are buying. If you can establish the grade you may have an idea of what the vehicle was sold as?

Milners sell replacement panels at remarkably cheap prices, along with other parts, so if you are getting this Surf at anything below £1500 it might be a good deal.

One way to check the mileage is to take a look at the cowling just in front of the engine. If the cam-belt has been changed you may find a sticker on here with a figure written on it. If it looks like a sticker has been removed, then ask yourself why?

I hope that this helps, but without knowing the year, age, price it's difficult to provide more info.

Cheers

Rob G

[papacroft]

If this guy is a reputable dealer and he imported it then he will know all of the answers to all of the questions that you are asking. He either knew what he was bidding for, or has an agent who found him what he was looking for.

If he imported it as a write off then he knows that.

He has the chassis number and the de-registration certificate. The de-registration is in Japanese, and there is always an English translation with it. If he doesn't have these documents then you won't be able to register it in this country. The DVLA want both copies, and nowadays they conduct their own checks with the Japanese authorities before giving you a licence plate number. You will find that they now make you wait 2-3 days before completing the registration formalities.

He will also have a Bill of Lading. This is issued when the vehicle is put onto the boat. It details the vehicle, accesories, and more importantly the price paid at auction. You can add £1000 to the value to cover shipping. (So if he is letting you have it for £1500, then he only paid £500 for it......scrap value??).

The de-registration certificate provides details of the last owner in Japan, the mileage (in kilometers) etc.

There is also an auction grade, they go from 1-5. 1 is a pile of metal, 5 is a concours spec. These are 'official' grades so that you know what you are buying. If you can establish the grade you may have an idea of what the vehicle was sold as?

Milners sell replacement panels at remarkably cheap prices, along with other parts, so if you are getting this Surf at anything below £1500 it might be a good deal.

One way to check the mileage is to take a look at the cowling just in front of the engine. If the cam-belt has been changed you may find a sticker on here with a figure written on it. If it looks like a sticker has been removed, then ask yourself why?

I hope that this helps, but without knowing the year, age, price it's difficult to provide more info.

Cheers

Rob G

Your discussion on the de-registration certificates should give me some clues on many of the points I brought. The vehicle is registered and MOT'd. Like I said in a previous post, he appears to have had ambitions of being a dealer. His wife was driving a Nissan Skyline (R32), which looked in excellent condition and this was up for sale for 3500. The guy is selling at cost to try and get his money back then is looking to set up a taxi business in the new year. He also had an imprezza that was for sale, but I didn't get a price off him. Again this looked in excellent condition.
Thanks
Mark..

[gemini]

Your discussion on the de-registration certificates should give me some clues on many of the points I brought. The vehicle is registered and MOT'd. Like I said in a previous post, he appears to have had ambitions of being a dealer. His wife was driving a Nissan Skyline (R32), which looked in excellent condition and this was up for sale for 3500. The guy is selling at cost to try and get his money back then is looking to set up a taxi business in the new year. He also had an imprezza that was for sale, but I didn't get a price off him. Again this looked in excellent condition.
Thanks
Mark..

forget the taxi business, this man is dealing in imports, but escaping the tax, when he,s sold the surf he'll get another, probably not a surf but another import which will be for sale with the same story as he's telling you, if you're not to up on motors find a proper dealer & get the warranty

[papacroft]

forget the taxi business, this man is dealing in imports, but escaping the tax, when he,s sold the surf he'll get another, probably not a surf but another import which will be for sale with the same story as he's telling you, if you're not to up on motors find a proper dealer & get the warranty

You're probably right. This would hang the story together about his wife waiting for an FTO that had not yet arrived ie. he was still importing.
Well I will have to check out all the vehicle documentation and see if it all adds up. I imagine that there will be a further posting from me tomorrow, so please watch out...
Thanks
Mark..

[kitesurf_phil]

Mark. At that price I would run a mile from a damaged truck. I now know I paid a bit over the odds at £5995 for a 1992 SSR-X 2.4L TD Auto, in July, which was in excellent condition (until I took it down the pit!) and has so far not given me any problems.
Shop around. Like the guys say, "There are lots about."
Sounds like my Mums advice on girls. Wish I had listened

[wibblywobbly]

Advice on Girls...ahhhhh

Now I just wish my mum had actually given me some advice! Might have saved myself a couple of hundred grand if she had!

Never mind, just packed the last one in two days after Christmas!



Rob G

[rusty]

Now I just wish my mum had actually given me some advice! Might have saved myself a couple of hundred grand if she had!

Never mind, just packed the last one in two days after Christmas!



Rob G

What you've packed in your Mum??

[wibblywobbly]

Ha ****** ha

Don't give up the day job.

My grandson arrives in about 20 days....and I am only 47 for chrissakes. Any more of this and I will have to sell the surf and buy a Honda Goldwing or something.

Just belted the Surf all the way from Bristol to Loughborough and back, nigh on 300 miles. Never missed a beat. Even the head is still intact???

I found a neat overtaking trick though, especially up hills, build up speed with overdrive on, stick my foot through the floor, switch overdrive off, wait till speed builds up and then switch overdrive back on. I got a nice catapault effect, although I am sure that the fuel gauge was moving faster than the Surf was!

One day I will find someone who understands the turbo mode programmer that I have in my dash, I am sure it is sapping power somewhere?

Rob G

[papacroft]

You're probably right. This would hang the story together about his wife waiting for an FTO that had not yet arrived ie. he was still importing.
Well I will have to check out all the vehicle documentation and see if it all adds up. I imagine that there will be a further posting from me tomorrow, so please watch out...
Thanks
Mark..

OK, I took the vehicle out on a test drive and have further inspected it:
Here are the points I have:
1. All the documentation checks out, SVA, MOT. Also includes servicing book and the Japanese forms of MOT with stamps that confirm the mileage and that it may have been stood for some period of time, hence the low mileage.
2. At tickover (standing still) there was a lot of vibration on the steering wheel and engine vibration generated noise on the dash.
3. The vehicle pulled to the left. The damage is on the nearside front and the tyre on the offside front was at 30lb/sq inch, the one on the nearside front was at 45lb/sq inch. ie it was pulling in the opposite direction to what you would expect. Therefore the bumper damage has also misaligned the steering. Does everyone agree? I think this is also backed up by the fact that the lower wishbone appears to have some damage, not a lot but during this impact (with a wall or rock we suspect), it looks to have caught this area.
To give some idea on the damage to the bumper it has been pushed in by approximately 1cm looking at the point where the wheel arch should line up with the end of the bumper.

Questions:
Have people knocked out their steering when offroading?
What would be an estimated maximum cost to put this area right assuming that the chassis or that area is not damaged?
Is there anything else I should consider looking at?
I was thinking of taking it to my local garage and having them pre MOT inspect it pointing out the pulling of the steering? Would a general mechanic be able to diagnose the problem or is the steering so complex that expert help is required?

One other point on the steering. The guy selling the vehicle is replacing a part on the steering that has some play in it. His mechanic believes that this part (stabilser) is the route cause of the mechanical bump stop sound. It eminates a clanking noise of full stop from the nearside front.
Any advice on this is welcomed.
Is there anyone in Manchester area who would be willing to inspect this vehicle for me?

Thanks
Mark..