road traffic law question....

[surfcarl]

coming home from work on the m4 today, i was going through roadworks, and approached a bridge, upon which were a camera pointed at each lane (grrr). police van parked at one side of bridge......
QUESTION IS...... if roadworks did NOT display speed restriction, I.E 50 mph, can you get done for it ???? on this stretch there is NO speed signs whatsoever, only on inside of cones saying site speed 20mph....
no matrix speed warning, no road signage warning, stating any speed limit...

area on m4 is east of leigh delamare services, this problem is on both carriage ways, no limits showing, been like it for a while....
...anyone ???

cheers, carl......

signs warn of roadworks but NO actual speeds displayed anywhere....

[rich1]

If there is nothing to tell you oterwise speed limit will be 70mph but befor you go though at that speed make 100% sure that the sly gits aint put the speed limit sigh way back down the carridgeway

[phoebelala]

If there is nothing to tell you oterwise speed limit will be 70mph but befor you go though at that speed make 100% sure that the sly gits aint put the speed limit sigh way back down the carridgeway

its probable that this was a tax disc check. they do it on myway bridges because they can do thousands in a short space of time.
Al.

[jaky cakes]

I was lead to believe that you cannot be prosecuted for speeding in temp reduce area i.e doing 70 on a motorway that has been temp reduce to 50. something to do with the road in question has a speed limit set by councils and laws and is written and logged as such -but temp speed zones are merely a suggested safe speed!
I am open to be corrected.....

[Guest]

I was lead to believe that you cannot be prosecuted for speeding in temp reduce area i.e doing 70 on a motorway that has been temp reduce to 50. something to do with the road in question has a speed limit set by councils and laws and is written and logged as such -but temp speed zones are merely a suggested safe speed!
I am open to be corrected.....

They can get you for dangerous driving I think however can't do that with a camera, they have to follow you. This can happen whether you are in the speed limit or not.

[Grimreeper]

I was lead to believe that you cannot be prosecuted for speeding in temp reduce area i.e doing 70 on a motorway that has been temp reduce to 50. something to do with the road in question has a speed limit set by councils and laws and is written and logged as such -but temp speed zones are merely a suggested safe speed!
I am open to be corrected.....

If the there are signs that are round with red outer ring stating speed limits ( you know the 1s) there are an order.....the max permited. Usually when temp signs are displayed the company has to apply to the athorities to get permission to temperarly reduce the limit, so it becomes law and the old bill can have u.

matrix signs are not compulsary and u cant be prosecuted for not obaying it. They are advisory only.

if no signs are there or r reasonaly visible then you cant be nicked....BUT get some vidio proof b4 u fight it.

[ChaosinDevon]

Firstly you do not have to be followed to be charged with dangerous or reckless driving, you only have to be observed doing so. A police officers word and note of your registration number is good enough to have you nicked. Though you are more likely to get a caution, depends on the officer and his mood and your general behaviour.
Temporary speed limits in areas of road workings are compulsory and not advisory.
If no speed limit is signed within the road workings area and you are booked for speeding, technically you can appeal, provided that you can prove it.
But it can also be argued that even though no lower speed limit was signed, you may alternatively be charged with driving without due care and attention, given that you were passing through a road works area thus endangering the roadworkers.
It is highly likely that the cameras you observed were for vehicle tax dodgers.

Chris ( ex traffic officer with D&C constabulary)

[slowdown.harrison@gmail.c]

try this thread

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...38587&f=10&h=0

[TJG]

There was a case in the national press I think last summer where a lady was acquitted of speeding in the roadworks because there was no speed limit signs, I understood that they were preparing to reverse hundreds of convictions on this particular stretch. So as far as I'm concerned no sign, no reduced limit. BUT give a thought to the poor mug on the other side of the cones with a shovel when your windblast knocks his tea over!

[ChaosinDevon]

There was a case in the national press I think last summer where a lady was acquitted of speeding in the roadworks because there was no speed limit signs, I understood that they were preparing to reverse hundreds of convictions on this particular stretch. So as far as I'm concerned no sign, no reduced limit. BUT give a thought to the poor mug on the other side of the cones with a shovel when your windblast knocks his tea over!

Incorrect, the case you refer to was where hundreds of vehicles were caught on a camera, where no speed limit signs were posted, so no one knew what speed they were supposed to be doing. There were no roadworks.
What never fails to amaze me is when people get caught speeding and they state " no speed signs"...... what happened to common sense, oh yes I forgot, it's not very common !

[TJG]

Incorrect, the case you refer to was where hundreds of vehicles were caught on a camera, where no speed limit signs were posted, so no one knew what speed they were supposed to be doing. There were no roadworks.
What never fails to amaze me is when people get caught speeding and they state " no speed signs"...... what happened to common sense, oh yes I forgot, it's not very common !

I think you will find that I am correct, extracted from the Daily Telegraph news archive:

4,000 drivers let off speed fines after signs blunder
By Richard Savill
(Filed: 22/07/2005)

More than 4,000 convicted motorists are to have their speeding fines refunded and penalty points rescinded after a blunder over restriction signs at roadworks.



Motorists who drove too fast through roadworks on the A303 at Folly Bottom, near Amesbury, Wilts, where a temporary 40mph limit was in force, paid a £60 fixed penalty or were fined by the courts.

But one driver, Clair Allison, 48, a television make-up artist, successfully challenged the fixed penalty in court.

The Wiltshire and Swindon Road Safety Partnership, which operated the camera, said in March that it would refund the fines of the 2,467 motorists caught speeding at the roadworks between September 2003 and January 2004, at a cost of £148,000.

Yesterday the partnership said all speeding convictions relating to the roadworks, which continued until July 31 last year, would now be set aside after a request by the Crown Prosecution Service. This involved a further 1,878 motorists and a further cost of £120,000.

The partnership said it had paid out compensation of up to £20 in about 50 cases where motorists faced insurance increases as a result of the convictions.

Miss Allison spent months taking photographs and gathering video evidence after she was caught breaking the limit.

She and 27 other motorists had speeding cases dismissed at Salisbury magistrates' court this year after they said the signs were not displayed properly, were not out at all, or were not backed up by necessary documentation.

Miss Allison said that yesterday's announcement was "absolutely brilliant". She added: "They have got to do something about this dreadful tax on motorists."

[ChaosinDevon]

Must have been two instances then.

[surfcarl]

not for one instance am i trying to get out of a fine and (my first ) three points....the point is.... you got that top notch lawyer in london, getting (rich) people off with the likes of drinking and driving, a far worse offence, me thinks..... just because someone forgets to dot the I,s and cross the T,sand they get away with it.....
..... so i thought... if i was charged with speeding, and there are no signs....
..... you can see where i,m going......
cheers ..... carl

[B16mts]

I just think some modern speed limits are stupid! I'm all for going slowly round schools and built up areas, but the motorway limit of 70 mph was set in the sixtys (awaiting correction from someone), when cars were trying to stop using four rickety drum brakes and no servo assistance, never mind ABS!! The braking distances in the highway code bare no resemblance to actual braking distance of a modern car in dry conditions.

The biggest killer in my opinion is carelessness. People should have driving tests every 5 years!

Oh, and back on the subject, definatly get video evidence of tere being no signs just incase you get a nasty letter from the old bill.

cheers,

Mart

[ChaosinDevon]

1970's ..... during the oil crisis.