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Hi,
I’ve not been online for a while due to other commitments but I haven’t been idle, I’ve been in my yard tinkering (sheds! Some people don’t know there born – when I were a lad ETC ETC) a little over 6 months and 12,000 miles ago I purchased an LPG fumigation kit from Tinley Tech (01954 719002). For those who don’t know it is possible to use LPG in a diesel engine but where as with a petrol engine you use petrol or LPG switching from one to the other with a diesel you use the LPG in addition to the diesel. Why would you do that? I hear you ask; well the LPG allows for a more efficient and complete combustion of the diesel, this results in lower emissions, better economy and /or more power. Whether you get better economy or more power depends on how much LPG you add and how you drive, if you use the extra power you won’t see much of an improvement in economy but you will be going faster!
So to figures, without gas; 94bhp at the rear wheels, with gas; 124bhp, with a similar increase in torque. Fuel economy has not changed noticeably -26/28 mpg without gas, 28/30 mpg with gas but there’s obviously the gas used to add to this. With the gas on my journey to work time is reduced by about 5-10 mins – not a very scientific test I know but it gives you an idea.
Fitting the kit is a DIY job but requires a lot of fiddling and if you don’t know what to do before you read the instructions you won’t be any the wiser afterwards, though Tinley are quite helpful over the phone on more technical questions. I’m not going to post a “how to” just in case I mess up and reduce some and there car to a pile of ashes but if anyone has specific questions I’ll try to help. Once fitted it took me several weeks to get the system running well and its still not perfect , occasional slight knock if you back off then accelerate in quick succession.– I think a more complex electronic control system would be beneficial. Otherwise the only difference I notice between gas off and on is a more willing engine with the gas on or should I say an engine that feels sluggish with the gas off as you quickly get used to the extra get up and go. Flicking the gas on usually produces no instant kick just a gradual increase in speed for a constant throttle.
Reliability – well as I said at the beginning the system has been fitted for a while now with no obvious ill effects but I’ve not done a teardown or even had a scope down the bores. I have monitored oil consumption and have seen no change, I sill use about 0.5l every 3000 miles and after the last oil change I cut open the filter and found nothing untoward. I’ve fitted a EGT gauge and a boost gauge and see a slight drop (50f-100f) in EGT with the gas on at cruising speed – it’s to difficult to tell at other speeds but peak EGT hasn’t increased.
Costs; about £600 all in, £540 for the kit and the rest on sundries. I opted for a toroidal tank fitted where the under slung spare would normally go and this put the price up slightly. It took me a weekend plus a few evenings to fit the kit, routing the pipe underneath the car and wrapping it in spiral wrap for extra protection was the worst part. Oh that and removing the EGR system, it will come off without removing the head but it’s probably easier to take the head off. I removed the EGT system as I didn’t like the idea of hot exhaust being fed into a manifold full of a flammable mix of gas and air though some people seem to do it with out problems – in fact I’ve heard no horror stories, but why take the chance? Removing the EGR system did leave me two ports to block off but I turned this to my advantage by fitting a pressure tapping to one and the EGT probe to the other.
Was it worth it? Well despite what I told the Mrs its never likely to pay for itself in fuel savings and £600 is quite a lot to pay for 30bhp at the wheels – say 40bhp at the crank but it does open up possible future power increases with more boost and it does reduce visible smoke and I hope other emissions to. If you want a cheap (relatively) “kick you can feel” mod try water injection.
Water Injection.
I looked at fitting an intercooler but it’s quite a job on a 3l so I thought I’d try water injection. I bought a kit from the States for £137 including postage and taxes.( http://www.devilsownonline.com ) This is a fairly basic kit based around a water pump from a mobile home and a nozzle from an oil fired boiler but with a small controller that piggy backs the MAP sensor and introduces the water progressively as boost rises. The most complex part of this installation was adapting the nozzle so it could be fitted and removed from the out side of the inlet crossover to allow quick and easy swaps to different sizes and to allow it to be positioned further along the crossover than I could reach if fitting it from the inside. I’ve settled on a 5 Gph nozzle with injection starting at 7 psi and reaching full by 10 psi. With this set up I can get through a gallon of water driving to work and back – 65 miles however in practise I switch it off once up to speed on A roads and it lasts a bit longer. I am try to sort out a larger tank though as at the moment I only have a 5l plastic bottle in one of the rear cubby boxes. Still it’s only tap water so finding fresh supplies is easy.
If you turn the water on when the engine is already boosting you get a real kick and if you’re not already at full boost you very soon will be, the boost comes in much quicker with the water on. I’ve not had the chance to dyno the car with the water on so can’t give any figures but the kick it gives is worth every penny! EGT stays the same in the mid range with the water on and max EGT is down a little but not significantly , fuel economy seems unchanged which considering the extra performance probably means a real terms improvement. Future plans include a larger tank and water/methanol mixes, adding methanol gives more power and lowers EGT. It’s worth noting that with the water and gas on there is practically no smoke from the exhaust even under full load quite the opposite of cars that have had there injection tweaked. The average EGT with the mods is lower so NOx levels should be no worse for disconnecting the EGR, visible smoke is reduced and economy has at least notionally improved so environmentally my car should be better for producing more power not worse and the mods work with bio-diesel too!
Sorry if this is a bit long and rambling I’m not a writer please ask if you have any questions.
I’ve not been online for a while due to other commitments but I haven’t been idle, I’ve been in my yard tinkering (sheds! Some people don’t know there born – when I were a lad ETC ETC) a little over 6 months and 12,000 miles ago I purchased an LPG fumigation kit from Tinley Tech (01954 719002). For those who don’t know it is possible to use LPG in a diesel engine but where as with a petrol engine you use petrol or LPG switching from one to the other with a diesel you use the LPG in addition to the diesel. Why would you do that? I hear you ask; well the LPG allows for a more efficient and complete combustion of the diesel, this results in lower emissions, better economy and /or more power. Whether you get better economy or more power depends on how much LPG you add and how you drive, if you use the extra power you won’t see much of an improvement in economy but you will be going faster!
So to figures, without gas; 94bhp at the rear wheels, with gas; 124bhp, with a similar increase in torque. Fuel economy has not changed noticeably -26/28 mpg without gas, 28/30 mpg with gas but there’s obviously the gas used to add to this. With the gas on my journey to work time is reduced by about 5-10 mins – not a very scientific test I know but it gives you an idea.
Fitting the kit is a DIY job but requires a lot of fiddling and if you don’t know what to do before you read the instructions you won’t be any the wiser afterwards, though Tinley are quite helpful over the phone on more technical questions. I’m not going to post a “how to” just in case I mess up and reduce some and there car to a pile of ashes but if anyone has specific questions I’ll try to help. Once fitted it took me several weeks to get the system running well and its still not perfect , occasional slight knock if you back off then accelerate in quick succession.– I think a more complex electronic control system would be beneficial. Otherwise the only difference I notice between gas off and on is a more willing engine with the gas on or should I say an engine that feels sluggish with the gas off as you quickly get used to the extra get up and go. Flicking the gas on usually produces no instant kick just a gradual increase in speed for a constant throttle.
Reliability – well as I said at the beginning the system has been fitted for a while now with no obvious ill effects but I’ve not done a teardown or even had a scope down the bores. I have monitored oil consumption and have seen no change, I sill use about 0.5l every 3000 miles and after the last oil change I cut open the filter and found nothing untoward. I’ve fitted a EGT gauge and a boost gauge and see a slight drop (50f-100f) in EGT with the gas on at cruising speed – it’s to difficult to tell at other speeds but peak EGT hasn’t increased.
Costs; about £600 all in, £540 for the kit and the rest on sundries. I opted for a toroidal tank fitted where the under slung spare would normally go and this put the price up slightly. It took me a weekend plus a few evenings to fit the kit, routing the pipe underneath the car and wrapping it in spiral wrap for extra protection was the worst part. Oh that and removing the EGR system, it will come off without removing the head but it’s probably easier to take the head off. I removed the EGT system as I didn’t like the idea of hot exhaust being fed into a manifold full of a flammable mix of gas and air though some people seem to do it with out problems – in fact I’ve heard no horror stories, but why take the chance? Removing the EGR system did leave me two ports to block off but I turned this to my advantage by fitting a pressure tapping to one and the EGT probe to the other.
Was it worth it? Well despite what I told the Mrs its never likely to pay for itself in fuel savings and £600 is quite a lot to pay for 30bhp at the wheels – say 40bhp at the crank but it does open up possible future power increases with more boost and it does reduce visible smoke and I hope other emissions to. If you want a cheap (relatively) “kick you can feel” mod try water injection.
Water Injection.
I looked at fitting an intercooler but it’s quite a job on a 3l so I thought I’d try water injection. I bought a kit from the States for £137 including postage and taxes.( http://www.devilsownonline.com ) This is a fairly basic kit based around a water pump from a mobile home and a nozzle from an oil fired boiler but with a small controller that piggy backs the MAP sensor and introduces the water progressively as boost rises. The most complex part of this installation was adapting the nozzle so it could be fitted and removed from the out side of the inlet crossover to allow quick and easy swaps to different sizes and to allow it to be positioned further along the crossover than I could reach if fitting it from the inside. I’ve settled on a 5 Gph nozzle with injection starting at 7 psi and reaching full by 10 psi. With this set up I can get through a gallon of water driving to work and back – 65 miles however in practise I switch it off once up to speed on A roads and it lasts a bit longer. I am try to sort out a larger tank though as at the moment I only have a 5l plastic bottle in one of the rear cubby boxes. Still it’s only tap water so finding fresh supplies is easy.
If you turn the water on when the engine is already boosting you get a real kick and if you’re not already at full boost you very soon will be, the boost comes in much quicker with the water on. I’ve not had the chance to dyno the car with the water on so can’t give any figures but the kick it gives is worth every penny! EGT stays the same in the mid range with the water on and max EGT is down a little but not significantly , fuel economy seems unchanged which considering the extra performance probably means a real terms improvement. Future plans include a larger tank and water/methanol mixes, adding methanol gives more power and lowers EGT. It’s worth noting that with the water and gas on there is practically no smoke from the exhaust even under full load quite the opposite of cars that have had there injection tweaked. The average EGT with the mods is lower so NOx levels should be no worse for disconnecting the EGR, visible smoke is reduced and economy has at least notionally improved so environmentally my car should be better for producing more power not worse and the mods work with bio-diesel too!
Sorry if this is a bit long and rambling I’m not a writer please ask if you have any questions.
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