EX103 and C&E reply

[andycook]

Alf

can you share the information you put on the form with us?
I also did lots research and thought I had filled the form in correctly and included a covering letter. it does seem some people get lucky, depending on you reads your application.
wonder if I can still get the 27p per litre tax? is there anything can do,
as it seem clear from their reply that veg oil wont do!

[paulh]

I phoned them up on Friday for the form and they said that they are inundated with requests but it will be with me in 4-5 working days, I'll keep you "posted"

[bigfoot99]

Yes Please

Anyone want a hand call me on 0208 8969172.
Rgds Philip

Got my form i thought it was a bit small , but not so then. Are you still available for HELP ?

Also the lady at HMRC told me the duty is 28.32 ppl

Simon

[Philip]

Forms

Still open to help people with forms. Although no gaurantee(is it au or ua) can never remember, of results. Depends on who reads it at Customs office.
0208 8969172
Rgds Philip

Got my form i thought it was a bit small , but not so then. Are you still available for HELP ?

Also the lady at HMRC told me the duty is 28.32 ppl

Simon

[andycook]

The way I see it, if I can get written proof that my veg oil has the correct ester and suphur chemistry, C&E cannot argue, as it will qaulify according to their diesel fuel standards, regardless of the fact it hasn't been transesterified (i.e. methanol and ammonium hydroxide added to it and glycerol removed).

But I will have to check with the first. I determined to find the loophole to get the lower duty, even though they seem to being trying to stop people getting that when running SVO, which has not been modified.

[andycook]

done some googling - SVO

done some research on web, and found this recent thread:
clarifys that HMCE are clamping down on veg oil getting lower duty rate,
and according to the below
"He also told me that they had been told that they
were not to accept any applications for paying excise in SVO/WVO at
the lower level from now on and that he expected that all those
paying at the lower level would be contacted and told that this would
be no-longer allowable."

hope you lower rate payers dont get contacted!

http://pub41.bravenet.com/forum/3470269378/fetch/553434

AND also read this one:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/...ad.php?tid=291


Subject: Re: That nasty three letter word TAX
Name: Chug
Date Posted: Sep 12, 05 - 3:36 PM
Message: yes duty is payable on all fuel substitutes.

But this was posted on another forum tonight.....not good if it's correct.
I expect there will be a few phoning HMRC tomorrow!

regards
Chug
****************************** ****************************** *********

I have just spoken to someone at HMCE today regarding the clear
statement on the 'four questions' letter that SVO/WVO does not meet
the requirements to be diesel quality, in comparison with the
information in their business brief 10/05 which seems to say
otherwise.

Firstly I was shocked to discover the chap I spoke to was not aware
of the business brief at all.

Secondly he informed me that a new policy was issued last week and it
has been stated that SVO and WVO do not meet the requirements for the
lower duty level. He also told me that they had been told that they
were not to accept any applications for paying excise in SVO/WVO at
the lower level from now on and that he expected that all those
paying at the lower level would be contacted and told that this would
be no-longer allowable.

I argued about the ester level, sulpur level and the fact that my
vehicle would run happily on 100% SVO but he said that that didn't
matter as SVO/WVO was now defined not to be diesel quality - full
stop. He was however unable to tell me exactly what the guidance said
and was unable to send me, or refer me to, a copy as it was still at
the printers.

I was not convinced that he knew 100% what he was talking about, but
he did say that he was aware that people had been paying at the lower
level untill now but that would not continue.

This seems like bad news to me - any comments? or does any one know
better?

Phil

[FlySurfer - Edy.]

done some research on web, and found this recent thread:
clarifys that HMCE are clamping down on veg oil getting lower duty rate,
and according to the below
"He also told me that they had been told that they
were not to accept any applications for paying excise in SVO/WVO at
the lower level from now on and that he expected that all those
paying at the lower level would be contacted and told that this would
be no-longer allowable."

hope you lower rate payers dont get contacted!

http://pub41.bravenet.com/forum/3470269378/fetch/553434

AND also read this one:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/...ad.php?tid=291


Subject: Re: That nasty three letter word TAX
Name: Chug
Date Posted: Sep 12, 05 - 3:36 PM
Message: yes duty is payable on all fuel substitutes.

But this was posted on another forum tonight.....not good if it's correct.
I expect there will be a few phoning HMRC tomorrow!

regards
Chug
****************************** ****************************** *********

I have just spoken to someone at HMCE today regarding the clear
statement on the 'four questions' letter that SVO/WVO does not meet
the requirements to be diesel quality, in comparison with the
information in their business brief 10/05 which seems to say
otherwise.

Firstly I was shocked to discover the chap I spoke to was not aware
of the business brief at all.

Secondly he informed me that a new policy was issued last week and it
has been stated that SVO and WVO do not meet the requirements for the
lower duty level. He also told me that they had been told that they
were not to accept any applications for paying excise in SVO/WVO at
the lower level from now on and that he expected that all those
paying at the lower level would be contacted and told that this would
be no-longer allowable.

I argued about the ester level, sulpur level and the fact that my
vehicle would run happily on 100% SVO but he said that that didn't
matter as SVO/WVO was now defined not to be diesel quality - full
stop. He was however unable to tell me exactly what the guidance said
and was unable to send me, or refer me to, a copy as it was still at
the printers.

I was not convinced that he knew 100% what he was talking about, but
he did say that he was aware that people had been paying at the lower
level untill now but that would not continue.

This seems like bad news to me - any comments? or does any one know
better?

Phil

Hmmm, Glad I waited and didnt get the elsbett I got quoted for.

now where is Hilux Bob ! lol....either that or time for a blooming MPV - Arse.

[Matt the Cat]

Worried now!

I sent off my form 2 weeks ago after talking to Philip and Trev, (thanks for your help guys) then got the standard response to which I have replied and I'm waiting to see what they say next. Until reading this latest thread I was reasonably hopeful, now I'm not so sure. I'll let you know what answer I get and if it's positive then I'll put on a copy of what I said.

[dirtydog]

if they up the tax I reckon most people will still run and just not declare as much.

all the talk of us running on greener fuels for cheaper - like heck!

[FlySurfer - Edy.]

They cant dip us all !

Let the Fuel Revolt Begin ?

[BUSHWHACKER]

[andycook]

I received this from vegetable oil manufacturer

I contacted the people who make the vegetable oil that Costco sell, regarding the chemistry of their vegetable oil.
Need to contact customs now and see what they say.
I also note that on another forum, i quoted yesterday, that one guy is seeking legal advice, so will be interesting what they come up with.
------------------------

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for contacting KTC (Edibles) Limited.


All vegetable oils are triglycerides. That is, they are made up of a
single molecule of glycerol (which looks like a capital letter "E") with
three fatty acids attached to each "arm". The fatty acids are the bits
which are categorised as, saturates, mono-unsaturates and
polyunsaturates on food labelling. The fatty acids are attached to the
glycerol molecule by ester bonds. So the ester content of the oil is, in
effect, the same as the fatty acid content (because you can't have one
without the other).

I have been told by a number of sources that 100% vegetable oil
qualifies for the same tax relief as biodiesel as it meets the same
chemical description (96.5% ester). Indeed, because fresh, refined
vegwetable oil has a very low FFA (free fatty acid) value, and therefore
a very high ester content, it is exactly what is meant by the
legislation and customs regulations when they cite a minimum of 96.5%
ester.

Sulphur "poisons" the nickle catalyst used in the vegetable oil refining
process. Consequently it is removed as far as chemically possible from
the raw material before the refining process and strictly limited in the
crude starting material.

0.0005% is another way of saying 5 parts per million. Our refiners have
assured us that refined oils do indeed have less than 5 p.p.m. sulphur
(or < 5mg/Kg, if you prefer).

[FlySurfer - Edy.]

Good snooping Andy...please keep us informed...hopefully I'll still have my surf by the time they respond.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Don'cha just love bureaucracy?

[andycook]

I just phoned the HMR&amp;E representative at the mineral oil reliefs centre

I just phoned the HMR&E representative at the mineral oil reliefs centre who sent me the letter last week, which said in summary that straight veg oil cannot qualify for lower rate.
I stated I was not happy with this decision, and quoted the fact that the vegetable oil manufacturer whos veg oil I use has supplied me with information that states that the oil does meet the customs definition of "diesel quality".
The guy was a bit vague and didnt seem to want to argue!.
The just kept saying policy told them of new decision and that vegetable oil had to be processed by transesterification.
And yes they have been getting a lot of calls about this!.
He asked if I wanted to appeal.
I said I would reply to letter, with covering information stating my evidence for the vegetable oil meeting their criteria.
their argument is rubbish, as vegetable oil meets the ester and sulphur content criteria whether its processed or not!
It seems they will only accept it at lower rate if its been processed!.

Basically it seems that they have not yet finalized their new Notice 179, but have issued an ammendment.

The guy said when they get my letter reply, he would organise for an "officer" to come and visit and discuss with me.
I will mention in the letter that it wont need an officer visit, as an expensive way to discuss this issue, he should just pass my letter onto an officer, then i can discuss by phone if necessary.

This is going to be bad news for us people who have invested in vehicle modifications, and also people who sell veg oil kits!