Give me a weapon and armour......

[Chillitt]

faith IS a wonderful thing. wether its faith in each other of in some greater scheme of things. there is very little of it left. the problem is religion, allah or god, there are more similarities than differences but the teaching of religion can lead to all manner of wild eyed insanity as seen yesterday.
keep the faith...

[Predictable Bob]

I hate to disagree with you guys but the problem is NOT religion - it's people !

I work in a large support team for a major government project and we have a significant number of Asians working with us - Hindu, Muslem and Christian - and they all get along fine.

Two of the Muslems are ex-Army, one from Pakistan and one from India - not so long ago they were both in Kashmir looking at each other over rifle sights !!!!

You can't blame an entire race or religion for events like these - only the murderous scum that chose to misinterpret their Holy books to justify their hatred.

I'm a moderate on most issues but if they can find any of the bits of these so called religious fanatics they should be wrapped in pigskin and buried in a secret, unmarked location. Then the rest of their kind should be told - as I understand it this means they won't be allowed into heaven - so the thought of martyrdom ceases to be an incentive ...... and the privilige can also be extended to those terrorists that currently reside at HM pleasure !

[SurfnTurf]

[

I'm a moderate on most issues but if they can find any of the bits of these so called religious fanatics they should be wrapped in pigskin and buried in a secret, unmarked location. Then the rest of their kind should be told - as I understand it this means they won't be allowed into heaven - so the thought of martyrdom ceases to be an incentive ...... and the privilige can also be extended to those terrorists that currently reside at HM pleasure ![/QUOTE]

That would make them think twice... take away their main objective.

[silvtr1000]

paulh, I think Predictable Bob is bang on.

Neither religion nor politics is behind terrorism, despite what naiive individuals are brainwashed into believing. Base, unchecked thuggery is to blame. It's not extremists of any religion that do these things, it's extremists of disrespect and narrowminded-ness and insanity.

Surfnturf - don't you think the world is already in anarchy - the rioters in Edinburgh, the twin towers attack, these london attacks - deviants are being allowed to dominate societies - that's not domination of just our tv screens & radios, but domination of civilised people's daily lives.

And I don't think that martyrdom drives these attacks. The individuals are simply brainwashed gimps - someone else is co-ordinating it all. They simply get off on causing misery. All acts of this type are the same, be they done by Irish, Spanish, Muslim, or whatever, terrorists. Cowardly insane thugs. Any sane person couldn't accept being part of a plan to destroy innocent life.

And the argument that Islamists/Muslims don't see westerners as innocent, or that the IRA doesn't see British as innocent, doesn't wash. One culture with it's own values can't judge another culture's behaviour based on its values. And acts of wrong that occured decades ago don't justify indiscriminate attacks that will kill children that aren't even aware of the history.

A lot of Londoners got back on public transport this morning - a great show of resilience & defiance, but I wonder if there was a single person who wasn't a little concerned for their safety? And that'll be the way for weeks or months in the future.

If athiest means not believing in god or gods or higher beings, then that's what I am - without getting into a separate topic, I saw a post on another forum this morning by a guy saying something like, if I made a statue, I wouldn't strap 4lbs of semptex to it... - why would a god encourage his own creation to destroy itself?

Base, unchecked thuggery, in the extreme. Civilised people should be ridding civilised societies of this type of menace, to allow societies to remain civilised.

Bushwacker - respect man, but were you serious about human rights?

These guys, by classification or genus or whatever, are human, yes - but once they attempt to interfere with another person's life, they forfiet those rights - end of story. Don't waste my money on rehabilitating them, or psycho-analysing them or keeping them in quality accomidation for x-number of years.

I want the money that I pay up in taxes to go to my kid's education, hospitals, getting rid of potholes and fixing the streetlamp outside my house, NOT to guys who will laugh and joke that they can interfere with my way of life and then p1ss in my shoes as they live it up. We indirectly financially support them to terrorize us!

Kill them, don't keep them.

Extreme? Maybe, but I'm not alone. And it's not racism - this type of evil thuggery has no colour or religion.


Mark

[SurfnTurf]

"Extreme? Maybe, but I'm not alone. And it's not racism - this type of evil thuggery has no colour or religion."


I do agree, and im just interested in other peoples point of view. It's a bit of a tough subject to get your head round as they are obviously from a very different background to us, i can't imagine what it must take to make someone want to cause pain to so many innocent people. No it's not racism, when it's directed at the people that have done this, and they deserve all they get. Though i think a few of the posts on here have been aimed at different cultures in general and they've done no more than you and I.

[BUSHWHACKER]

No way, that was just sarcasm to lighten the debate!



Mark re: your quote....
I want the money that I pay up in taxes to go to my kid's education, hospitals, getting rid of potholes and fixing the streetlamp outside my house, NOT to guys who will laugh and joke that they can interfere with my way of life and then p1ss in my shoes as they live it up. We indirectly financially support them to terrorize us!

Kill them, don't keep them.

Extreme? Maybe, but I'm not alone. And it's not racism - this type of evil thuggery has no colour or religion.




Abso!!!!!!lutely!

This must be the only country in the world that wraps murderers/thieves/terrorist suspects/tyrants etc. up in warm cosy "blankets untill we can be bothered to look into their individual cases.
meanwhile we are paying for it in lives and taxes.
Just bring back the death penalty! sure, people will say that we may sentencing innocent people to death, or going against their "human rights" ........but it will deter them from carrying out their "deeds" in this country.

O.k. Ive said enough now, phew.

[SeanH]

Anyone remember what Micheal Caine said in The Italian Job?

"There are over 300,000 Italians in Brittain. And every pizza house, night club and den will be made to suffer, in London, Cardiff and Glasgow. They will all be driven into the sea"

Did the mafia shoot him? Did they f***k!

This post will get slated or even removed, but if they want to call it a religious war, then fair enough ....... an eye for an eye it is then!

Rant over

[AndyBud]

[QUOTE=Nick V]The Guantonimo Bay 'Brits' were caught out in Afgahnistan, put in Cuba, and then our illustrious government decided to fight for their release 'cos their human rights were being infringed upon!! Their human rights, my ar$e!!!! You don't see the Yanks doing that now do you?[QUOTE]

Thats why you should not act whilst Angry

Devil’s Advocate mode:

The guantanamo 'Brits' - if we are going to write them off at least we can name them:

Asif Iqbal - Factory worker
Shafiq Rasul - Worked in IT
Ruhal Ahmed - Factory worker
Jamal Udeen - Web designer
Tarek Dergoul - A former care worker for the elderly

They went to Afghanistan to ‘defend’ (if you believe the unsubstantiated claims) a country being invaded by another country, were 'captured' by US forces or handed over by the NA who said they were enemy soldiers). Forcibly moved to another country, kept in solitary confinement, tortured, not able to see a lawyer, no charges made, eventually released due to international (including US public) pressure. In the UK, no charges made, and all of a sudden they are no threat!!!

Lesson learned:
An invading force can hold any person they want (without justifying it), can treat that person how they want, even though they could not provide any evidence. That is why ‘Human Rights’ are important, today it was them tomorrow it could be you!

[BUSHWHACKER]

Erm, what were they accused of again???

[AndyBud]

Erm, what were they accused of again???

Innocent until proven guilty!!!

Are you actually saying that to be accused of a crime (with no evidence offered) is enough to be convicted of a crime? I don't accept that for them and I wouldn't for you

[BUSHWHACKER]

Innocent until proven guilty!!!

Are you actually saying that to be accused of a crime (with no evidence offered) is enough to be convicted of a crime? I don't accept that for them and I wouldn't for you

Makes no difference to me,.
They chose to be there, nobody forced them to go, so as far as I'm concerned they forfeit any human rights 'cos they took away other peoples.

[firefly]

This post will get slated or even removed, but if they want to call it a religious war, then fair enough ....... an eye for an eye it is then!

well if thats the case god help us because the innocent civillians killed in Iraq outnumber this episode and the trade centre attacks, or is it a case of they dont matter!!!!!!!

[Gtdog]

How quickly we forget how guilty we are.....

We invade a country to obtain its oil, in partnership with the biggest global bully. Terrorise on a daily basis its inhabitants, kill a few on a daily basis, as a scared squaddie with a gun finds it hard to differenciate friend from foe.

Then as innocently as the Americans after ( a truly terrible event) 911 ask who would want to do this and why?

I cant condone any act of violence, it is moraly and ethicaly wrong, solves very little, and as we are finding in the words we type generates further acts of violence.

I dont know the awnswer, I truly wish I did.....
But Knee Jerk reactions bourne of frustration and anger are not the awnswer, and never can be.

If we realy want bloodshed, place the extremists (Presidents and Prime Ministers included) that fuel these acts in a ring, tell them the last man standing wins the right for an oppinion.

N.B.
Any person taking anothers life is acting against the teachings of the Muslim faith, therefore can hardly be regarded as a true Muslim?

[firefly]

Any person taking anothers life is acting against the teachings of the Muslim faith, therefore can hardly be regarded as a true Muslim?

i agree but this should read Any person taking anothers life is acting against the teachings of most Faiths thoughout the world. NOT JUST MUSLIM

[AndyBud]

Makes no difference to me,.
They chose to be there, nobody forced them to go, so as far as I'm concerned they forfeit any human rights 'cos they took away other peoples.

(touching gloves before the next round begins )

But by us arbitrarily deciding who has Human rights and who does not, and then condoning any action by our side against those people. What stops us becoming like the people we are fighting against. Current estimate of civilians killed by military intervention in Iraq - between 22,787 and 25,814

As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes us all blind"