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  • The 4x4 debate

    The times today decided to enter the debate and write a whole page about why someone has got a bee in their bonnet over 4x4's.It was quite a refreshing change.It also high light the fact that jeep have introduced anew 4x4 that has two 5.7 litre engines giving out 670 hp here it is if you want to read it.




    Praise for the maligned 4 x 4
    By Kevin Eason of The Times
    Big and beautiful: Jeep unveiles two new 4x4s at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, including the Gladiator, above (JERRY MENDOZA)IT IS a bit difficult to visualise but, in a week when Jesus has been dragged into the limelight thanks to a musical with more swearing than you could hear during lunchtime in a truck drivers’ café, why shouldn’t the Good Lord turn up in a car showroom? According to the Evangelical Environmental Network, an enthusiastic Christian organisation in Philadelphia, “Jesus cares about what we drive”.

    Which, I think, is nothing to do with the issue of whether he would have swapped his ass for a Jaguar for his drive into Jerusalem, but a ploy to embarrass some of us. Well, you actually. Yes, you, with that enormous 4 x 4, who was parked outside the school gates this morning with cars queued up and down the street, drivers tapping their steering wheels in exasperation as you unloaded Hermione and Julian after their exhausting 500-yard drive from home. You are the one they are after. And Jesus, too, apparently.

    In fact, everyone seems to hate the 4 x 4: Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, who wants a grand prix in the capital, thinks that only “idiots” drive 4 x 4s in town. Tree-hugging Liberal Democrats want to double the congestion charge on them because they are too big and guzzle petrol; authorities in Paris even want to ban 4 x 4s from the city’s streets (although no surprise that none of France’s carmakers markets a four-wheel-drive vehicle).

    NI_MPU('middle');The carmakers in Detroit this week, where the bigwigs of the industry met for the annual North American International Auto Show, might have been keen to press their green credentials, but there is still a mountain to climb before hybrid electric vehicles take over from the traditional slab-sided petrol and diesel ones that have attracted Christian ire and led to the evangelicals dishing out bumper stickers with the motto “What Would Jesus Drive?” to prick consciences. There were a couple of hybrid models on show. So, what?

    Jeep, the oldest name in the 4 x 4 business, turned up with the Gladiator and the Hurricane. Say no more, really, with those two monikers. The Gladiator is a positive shrinking violet, more pink tutu than chest armour, with a measly 2.8-litre turbo-diesel pumping out 163 horsepower to shift its two tonnes. The big hitter is the Hurricane, a concept that will have the environmentalists reaching for their recycled notepaper even as I write. Close your eyes now if you don’t want to know the worst: not one 5.7-litre engine, but two — one in front and one in the back — give “the most powerful 4 x 4 ever built” its 670hp (like strapping together nine Ford Fiestas).

    I hear the cry “disgrace” rising from the living rooms of North London and the pews of North America. But why take it out on 4 x 4s? Are they bigger than a London taxi or a people carrier? I thank Mr B. W. Crooks, my faithful reader from Berkshire — where I am sure they have their fair share of 4 x 4s — for his studious intervention. He has been out with the calculator to dispel the myth that 4 x 4s take up more than their fair share of road. He has calculated the “footprint” of 31 vehicles — their area of space — and discovered that SUVs are far from being the road hogs: only one, the Range Rover, with a footprint of 1,084sq cm, appears in his top ten, which is headed by Bentley’s Continental GT at 1,235sq cm. His list has the Ford Galaxy (994), new Citroën C5 (998), Mercedes S-Class (1,075), BMW 7 Series (1,102), Rolls-Royce Phantom (1,160) and Mercedes Viano MPV (1,170) way ahead of just about any 4 x 4 you could name. He points out mischievously that two of the vehicles in the top ten, the Chrysler Grand Voyager (1,127) and Jaguar XJ (1,072), are regularly used by a certain Mr Blair. Now, I am not as clever as our reader (O-level maths, failed, twice), but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that there are plenty of gas-guzzling cars around, the second accusation levelled at 4 x 4s. You might be lucky to get 30 miles to the gallon from most petrol-powered 4 x 4s, but diesel versions return some respectable “mpg” figures, just as some petrol cars will cause the odd shock at the pumps. In other words, the debate is spurious nonsense fuelled by zealots who have fastened on to an easy target. After all, if Jesus did have to choose a car, it is not just fuel economy and pollution He would have to worry about; there would be the disciples to cram in the back. And then there is all that clambering up to rocky mounts to give sermons. A Ford Fiesta just wouldn’t cut it. He might have to buy a Grand Voyager. Or even, gulp, a 4 x 4.
    I always work better wet .

    Its why I became a plumber!!!

  • #2
    have you seen the new fiat panda 4x4!!!?????
    [IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/DONKR1/me.jpg[/IMG]
    [url]www.qube-art.co.uk[/url]

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    • #3
      Oh Yes!! i DIDNT KNOW WHETHER TO CRY OR LAUGH , but ended up doing both at the same time.
      I always work better wet .

      Its why I became a plumber!!!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by qube3
        have you seen the new fiat panda 4x4!!!?????
        Fiat used to do a 4x4 Panda many moons ago, the transmission was made by puch steyr daimler and it was quite an amusing motor, my mate pete had one. As it only weighed about 3OZs it was actually "fairly" useful off road.
        Im not justifying it's existance merely pointing out that this isnt a new motor.
        I even considered getting one but i was young and impressionable then, now i'm old and cynical!
        A positive attitude wont solve all your problems but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort!

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        • #5
          Our local friends of the earth group are on a campaign to stop 4x4s using the town (Falmouth Cornwall). They have reported to two local newspapers that they shall be in the town this saturday issuing fake traffic violation notices to "offending" vehicles stating why we shouldn't have 4x4's. I wouldn't normally drive to town on a saturday but feel obliged to now! Looking forward to meeting these workshy wasters, If they worked then they could have shiny 4x4s too!

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          • #6
            Photograph them and report them for littering the countryside

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JimL
              Photograph them and report them for littering the countryside
              Even better, charge them for advertisement space, use of your vehicle, time and petrol..
              Gaz
              _________________________________

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              • #8
                Fake tickets

                Originally posted by sniper
                Our local friends of the earth group are on a campaign to stop 4x4s using the town (Falmouth Cornwall). They have reported to two local newspapers that they shall be in the town this saturday issuing fake traffic violation notices to "offending" vehicles stating why we shouldn't have 4x4's. I wouldn't normally drive to town on a saturday but feel obliged to now! Looking forward to meeting these workshy wasters, If they worked then they could have shiny 4x4s too!
                Remind the tree hugger friends of the earth how many oxygen providing trees that would have been cut down and wasted issuing fake tickets, they could have been used as forum adverts instead lol
                BEWARE OF THE REAPER

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                • #9
                  i'd leave them somehing more enviromental on their windscreen....
                  it's in me shed, mate.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by qube3
                    have you seen the new fiat panda 4x4!!!?????
                    I haven't seen the new Panda but there are a couple of guys that take an old one to Devils Pit, all roll caged out and with some meaty tyres on. Where-as the Zooks can go places a Rangy or Surf won't fit, the little old Panda goes where Zooks won't fit!

                    I don't know how many engines/gearboxes thay have got through, mind?
                    It's only a hobby!

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                    • #11
                      Isnt this a great way of putting it......

                      'Arguably the growing love affair with SUVs is rooted in the original allure of the car - its offer of freedom to go where you want when you want. The only stipulation was that you were stuck on the road'

                      (Taken from a newspaper clip about the new disco)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kitesurf_phil
                        I haven't seen the new Panda but there are a couple of guys that take an old one to Devils Pit, all roll caged out and with some meaty tyres on. Where-as the Zooks can go places a Rangy or Surf won't fit, the little old Panda goes where Zooks won't fit!

                        I don't know how many engines/gearboxes thay have got through, mind?
                        I believe they have tractor tyres on the back .... remember seeing the off-road program on sky recently and they were down at the pit etc..
                        Gaz
                        _________________________________

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gizmo
                          I believe they have tractor tyres on the back .... remember seeing the off-road program on sky recently and they were down at the pit etc..
                          When is this off road program on? I can never find anything worth watching. Oh, I did find some surfing the other night. And The Long Way Round was good.
                          It's only a hobby!

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                          • #14
                            It's called "Off the road" on Discovery Travel and Adventure (553 on Sky).
                            It's not on at the mo, but watch out for it, it's not bad.
                            You can take my 4x4 from me when you prize the keys from my cold, dead hand.

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                            • #15
                              Bit sad but to the origional post a french maufacturer does sell a 4x4 Renault its called the scenic rx4 see here http://www.irishcar.com/renaultscenicrx4.htm oh and here http://www.citroencentral.com/spages...go_citroen.asp
                              Last edited by firefly; 16 January 2005, 12:53.
                              if a politition is talking its lying

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