confused about 4wheel drive

[christopoher murphy]

i have a question about the 4 wheel drive system on my 1993 2.4LTE surf. the gearbox is a manual 5 speed. im just wondering if you can drive with it (on hard surfaces) in 4 wheel drive without damaging the transfer box or gearbox in low or high range. I have searched through some of the forums on the Auatrailian website and on the English but some say its ok as long as you dont turn a corner some say the diff still does its job and allows you to turn corners. so any info would be greatly appreciated as im a bit worried that i drove in the snow mostly in 4 wheel drive over ice and hard road surfaces.

[BUSHWHACKER]

It's o.k. in a straight line on hard (grippy) surfaces to be in 4WD.
One loose or slippery surfaces, it's o.k. to turn on full lock if you need to, as long as the surface is loose enough to let the tyres "slip"





p.s. High Newbie!

[Morr]

Even is a straight line its possible to get transmission wind-up due to differences in front/rear tyre diameters, ie if they are not a matched set (they should always be on any 4wd) or if one set has worn more than the other etc.

Simplest rule for any 2nd Gen is not to use 4wd on any hard surfaces.

If you wish to briefly engage it for testing purposes etc, you can do so but only for a few yards, ie long enough for it to engage so you see it operational, then disengage it.

[christopoher murphy]

back again

i understand what you have written about the being in 4 wheel drive, but when in two wheel drive you can turn corners so surley you can do it in four as it drives through the same differential and i know that i havent got locking diffs so in theory you can turn corners in four wheel drive.

[phoebelala]

i understand what you have written about the being in 4 wheel drive, but when in two wheel drive you can turn corners so surley you can do it in four as it drives through the same differential and i know that i havent got locking diffs so in theory you can turn corners in four wheel drive.

Always puzzled me too mate! I once tried it on tarmac in my 92 2nd gen and with any lock on the steering she did not like it at all. Just felt like something was fighting with something else if you can dig?

Al

[yoshie]

i understand what you have written about the being in 4 wheel drive, but when in two wheel drive you can turn corners so surley you can do it in four as it drives through the same differential and i know that i havent got locking diffs so in theory you can turn corners in four wheel drive.

No you can't it is not designed as permenant 4wd you will destroy the tanny at best get throwin off the road at worst

The 3rd gen have a differant set up which allows 4wd on hard grippy surface

[dave.j.robbo]

i understand what you have written about the being in 4 wheel drive, but when in two wheel drive you can turn corners so surley you can do it in four as it drives through the same differential and i know that i havent got locking diffs so in theory you can turn corners in four wheel drive.

What do you mean by 'i know that i havent got locking diffs'???

With no centre diff, a 2nd Gen Surf is 'effectively' always in diff-lock.

Front diff will work, as will rear diff, but as there's no diff between them, it gets bu**ered up quite quick if you use it on the hard stuff...

[TonyN]

With no centre diff, a 2nd Gen Surf is 'effectively' always in diff-lock.

Exactly, the front wheels follow a different radius than the back when going round corners, therefore they travel different distances between the front and back axles. With no diff or slippery surfaces to allow for slip, its down to traction verses strenght of transmission to see who will give up first.

Try it gently in a car park, on full lock in 4wd the front tyres scrub like mad, and the truck won't actually go anywhere unless you give it some throttle to break the grip of the tyres on the road.

[chasharman]

2nd gen versus 3rd gen

just to add some more conffusion, does anyone know if it is possible to take the running gear off of the 3rd gen Surf and bolt it on to a 2nd gen Surf. Not having any knowledge of the 3rd gen and limited knowledge on my 2nd gen 1992 Surf I am not sure of the underpinnings. It would be a handy thing to be able to select 4wd and leave it in for a period of time. I say this, because at present there is snow covering the roads in Aberdeenshire right now. Some of the roads are quite bad in parts and clear in parts. It`s a bit of a pain selecting and unselecting 4wd all the time. I too now what wind-up feels like and can only imagine the damage and expense if you were to wreck your transmission.
Has any of you looked into the possibilities of changing the 2nd gen set-up?

[TonyN]

the 3rd gen front front prop is on the opposite side the 2nd gen, its a completely different car, might as well put a 2nd gen body on a 3rd gen chassis.

But the second gens work OK, thats the whole point of the ADD system on second gens, you can put it in 4 or 2wd drive as road conditions dictate without slowing down

just to add some more conffusion, does anyone know if it is possible to take the running gear off of the 3rd gen Surf and bolt it on to a 2nd gen Surf. Not having any knowledge of the 3rd gen and limited knowledge on my 2nd gen 1992 Surf I am not sure of the underpinnings. It would be a handy thing to be able to select 4wd and leave it in for a period of time. I say this, because at present there is snow covering the roads in Aberdeenshire right now. Some of the roads are quite bad in parts and clear in parts. It`s a bit of a pain selecting and unselecting 4wd all the time. I too now what wind-up feels like and can only imagine the damage and expense if you were to wreck your transmission.
Has any of you looked into the possibilities of changing the 2nd gen set-up?

[phoebelala]

just to add some more conffusion, does anyone know if it is possible to take the running gear off of the 3rd gen Surf and bolt it on to a 2nd gen Surf. Not having any knowledge of the 3rd gen and limited knowledge on my 2nd gen 1992 Surf I am not sure of the underpinnings. It would be a handy thing to be able to select 4wd and leave it in for a period of time. I say this, because at present there is snow covering the roads in Aberdeenshire right now. Some of the roads are quite bad in parts and clear in parts. It`s a bit of a pain selecting and unselecting 4wd all the time. I too now what wind-up feels like and can only imagine the damage and expense if you were to wreck your transmission.
Has any of you looked into the possibilities of changing the 2nd gen set-up?

3rd gen is great. had mine in 4x4 all day today driving across a snow covered field and up a dirt track then out onto the roads which are part ice and snow part clear. Just select and forget.
Al

[christopoher murphy]

3rd gen is great. had mine in 4x4 all day today driving across a snow covered field and up a dirt track then out onto the roads which are part ice and snow part clear. Just select and forget.
Al

So with my 2nd gen surf i can bung it it in 4 wheel drive at any reasonable speed. I also had another ponderer i recently was driving off road and managed to get two wheels off the ground (one on each axle) and i found myself just spinning the two wheels in the air so isnt the ADD meant to top this and transfer the power to the grippy on the floor wheels. Many thanks to all the replies. chris.

[TonyN]

So with my 2nd gen surf i can bung it it in 4 wheel drive at any reasonable speed. I also had another ponderer i recently was driving off road and managed to get two wheels off the ground (one on each axle) and i found myself just spinning the two wheels in the air so isnt the ADD meant to top this and transfer the power to the grippy on the floor wheels. Many thanks to all the replies. chris.

2nd gens can select up to 50mph for high range 4wd.

If you lift a wheel on each axle, you won't get any traction, nor will a 3rd gen or even a Land Rover, they all have open diffs front and rear!!

A tight LSD in the rear like some Surfs have will help a little, but a LSD will never solidly lock like a locker if one wheel is in the air

The only way you'll get out of that situation is with a diff lock in the front or rear axle, or enough speed to carry you over it.

The ADD is only a system for selecting 4wd on the move. Its just a coller that links the two halfs of the long side front driveshaft when you press the button.

[christopoher murphy]

2nd gens can select up to 50mph for high range 4wd.

If you lift a wheel on each axle, you won't get any traction, nor will a 3rd gen or even a Land Rover, they all have open diffs front and rear!!

A tight LSD in the rear like some Surfs have will help a little, but a LSD will never solidly lock like a locker if one wheel is in the air

The only way you'll get out of that situation is with a diff lock in the front or rear axle, or enough speed to carry you over it.

The ADD is only a system for selecting 4wd on the move. Its just a coller that links the two halfs of the long side front driveshaft when you press the button.

all much clearer now many thanks tony.