Tailgate Brake Light

[cara-croft]

Hi
Im due to take my Hilux Surf 3.0L TD SSRG 1996 Gen 3 for its MOT, but my Tailgate brakelight has stopped working.

It has been temperamental for a while sometimes working and other times not - I replaced the bulb at first and still the same trouble until it wouldnt work at all so I then replaced the bulb holder. But no joy, its not even working intermittently now.

I dont want to pull the whole car apart trying to find out where the electrics go and the wiring diagrams are totally alien to me in my manual.:
Any ideas where the problem is likely to be - does it have its own fuse anywhere , is it easy to trace the electrics to find any problems?

Any help would be great thanks

Cara x

[popuptoaster]

"Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must be fitted with two obligatory stop lamps.

Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter."

Take the bulb out, stick some tape over it and if asked say it's not connected, then fix it at your leisure.

[cara-croft]

Thanks Popup - this is really interesting as I have been arguing this point with friends as to whether I would fail when my two main brake lights work fine. i did suggest the tape thing and they said no if its there it has to work!

This would certainly buy me time thanks a lot

[shokenore]

You know if the vehicle is fitted with OEM lights especially brake lights then they must work.
You may get away with front spotlights not working, but do you really want to run the risk of not having fully functioning brake lights from the fact that it is a moving vehicle violation which the police would be interested in but in the unfortunate event of you being rear ended you are giving the other driver and more importantly their insurance company wriggle room to change the fault and hence the liability from the other driver to you.


Many studies have proved the effectiveness of the third brake light in reducing accidents.
It is probably a broken wire in the loom.
Don't be cheap get it fixed.

[popuptoaster]

You know if the vehicle is fitted with OEM lights especially brake lights then they must work.

Not true, i quoted the rule as its written in the book, you must have two working that are the obligatory ones any others are classed as extras OEM or not.

it doesn't matter if you agree with the rule or not the tester has to test as presented and if the vehicle is presented with the high level light disconnected they can't fail it.

There is a forum for MOT testers here, and they were asked the same question.

http://motforum.proboards.com/thread...al-brake-light

[shokenore]

Not true, i quoted the rule as its written in the book, you must have two working that are the obligatory ones any others are classed as extras OEM or not.

it doesn't matter if you agree with the rule or not the tester has to test as presented and if the vehicle is presented with the high level light disconnected they can't fail it.

There is a forum for MOT testers here, and they were asked the same question.

http://motforum.proboards.com/thread...al-brake-light

The fact that the question you refer to was answered in 2010 over four years ago, is beside the point, but seeing as you referenced it the last post states that it will be a fail, when the presenter is retested after the questions are asked it will be a pass with advice.
That pass with advice is now electronically stored and can be recalled at the click of a mouse.
In the unfortunate event of an accident would you really want this information readily available, especially now ,as all insurers all actively seeking ways to not pay out.
I purposely did not mention the vagaries of MOT testing as the MOT testing is not done by the same people and results vary.
Just search ARB's and MOT here and see the replies.
Have a look at the road traffic act and construction and use articles.
The point of law states that all lights, should, if fitted work.
I'm fairly certain PC Plod will take a dim view to the third brake light not working, however any attempt to disguise the fact that it is defective will in no doubt get him all a quiver.

Do me a favour phone up your insurer and ask him whilst you are on the phone why not ask your local traffic police their views also.
Hey mate my third brake light don't work do you mind if I stick a bit of gaffer tape over it.
And let me know how you get on.
More importantly is this.
It's a brake light a visual warning to other road users, you may be happy with the gaffer tape solution, I don't roll that way.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Cara, it's most likely the bulb's contacts in the holder, they can get covered in a thin layer of corrosion or, the contacts could be spread too far apart and need pinching together, causing intermittant bulb illuminiation.
To check, get someone to press the brake pedal (the ignition doesn't need to be switched on) and give the bulb a wiggle in the holder and see if it illuminates.

[popuptoaster]

The fact that the question you refer to was answered in 2010 over four years ago, is beside the point, but seeing as you referenced it the last post states that it will be a fail, when the presenter is retested after the questions are asked it will be a pass with advice.
That pass with advice is now electronically stored and can be recalled at the click of a mouse.
In the unfortunate event of an accident would you really want this information readily available, especially now ,as all insurers all actively seeking ways to not pay out.
I purposely did not mention the vagaries of MOT testing as the MOT testing is not done by the same people and results vary.
Just search ARB's and MOT here and see the replies.
Have a look at the road traffic act and construction and use articles.
The point of law states that all lights, should, if fitted work.
I'm fairly certain PC Plod will take a dim view to the third brake light not working, however any attempt to disguise the fact that it is defective will in no doubt get him all a quiver.

Do me a favour phone up your insurer and ask him whilst you are on the phone why not ask your local traffic police their views also.
Hey mate my third brake light don't work do you mind if I stick a bit of gaffer tape over it.
And let me know how you get on.
More importantly is this.
It's a brake light a visual warning to other road users, you may be happy with the gaffer tape solution, I don't roll that way.

The applicable rule hasn't changed in years, you can go look it up, current version is here,

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_120.htm


As I said, your opinion doesn't matter, the rules in the book say you don't need the high level brake light to work, and as i said in my post, that means the car can get its MOT and the brake light can be fixed at the owners leisure at no point did i say

"Yeah just leave the light broken you don't need it"

But in fact I gave a solution that could keep someone's truck on the road while they found the time to get it fixed, I'm sure you NEVER drive your truck with any defects while you wait for a convenient time to get it mended but the rest of us sometimes have to wait until we have the time or the money or can get a garage appointment to get ours sorted out.


Why you want to write a massive wall of text full of opinions rather than facts when a simple question got the simple answer it required is beyond me.

I feel like you have decided to pick on me as a target to the detriment of the OP and a solution to the problem I provided.

[cara-croft]

Ok guys I seem to have put a spanner in the works and caused a row!!

I had my MOT today and the guy said that as long as your two main brake lights are working it is a PASS. He did add that really I should either fix it or disconnect it completely, but I did confirm with him that it does not have to have a third brake light working just as "popuptoaster" said.

Aside to this if you see my original post I was actually asking for advice to fix the problem and have all intentions of doing this, it was only the nearness of the MOT which was worrying me. I value the third brake light as a safety device and will get it fixed. Again any advice or help would be great

Thanks Vince, for your answer I have tried this and have replaced both the bulb and bulbholder to no avail

Where should I start looking - does it have its own fuse? What about the most probable place for a wire to be broken?

Thanks

[BUSHWHACKER]

Remove the plastic roof section to get at the wires/socket, it just pulls off, no tools required.
Maybe the wires are broken in the flexible conduit due to age/fatigue and the movement of the tailgate when opening/closing.

[cara-croft]

Thanks for that -I have a place to start now - I will try that tomorrow.

Watch this space !!

[cara-croft]

Hi

Thanks again Vince - did exactly as you said and amazingly found 3 wires broken straight away. These are now fixed and everything works!! I cant believe it, jobs never go that well for me usually.

So I now have 3 brake lights again and everyone is happy

Cara