Help!!! Weird engine / fuel problem?

[Apache]

I've used biodiesel on on a few occasions. This weekend, I filled up in Liverpool (I had about 1/4 tank of conventional diesel and topped off with bio.)

On the way back from Liverpool to Worcester today, I found that it seemed to be a bit down on power (felt rather like lugging a heavy load around), and I assumed I'd got a bum tankful of bio.

Going up a long hill out of Bromyard (nearly home), it required a downshift where it doesn't normally, shortly after, the check engine light came on and the revs dropped. Whilst I was muttering 'sh*t' under my breath, the engine light went off and the revs came back up. However, as I turned a junction, the engine died and I was power-steering less on the grass verge! (Thankfully, the right hand turn put me on the grass rather than in the other lane!)

It took about 4 or five real good bursts of starter to get it going again, but the rest of the way home, it really struggled. As soon as I got home, I filled up with over half a tank of Texaco diesel and went for a spin (20 miles or so) to see if it was a fuel problem.

It *seems* slightly better, but I had trouble holding 70mph on the M50 on a gradient.

Temp / oil press etc all stayed normal throughout, turbo sounds nice and whistley etc.

My questions are as follows.

a) Does this sound like the bio is the problem?
b) Or could it be something else?
c) How many miles worth of fuel are in the lines and filter? In other words, how long will I have to drive to clear it out of the system?
d) Has the ECU reset itself to the boi and will run like cr@p now until it's reset again?

Am I missing anything?

Hope you chaps can help as we rely on this motor for my wifes business!

[marky]

Put a full bottle of REDEX for DIESEL MOTORS through it to give it a good clean out. As it was ok before you used the other stuff.

[Frogsurf]

Put a full bottle of REDEX for DIESEL MOTORS through it to give it a good clean out. As it was ok before you used the other stuff.

Search for another thread on this 3L forum, someone reckons you can get up to 65mls with red fuel warning light on. I only dared ever do 30.

Hope you sort it out and share answer.... heres a thread

low fuel light thread

[da SLUG man]

Put a full bottle of REDEX for DIESEL MOTORS through it to give it a good clean out. As it was ok before you used the other stuff.

how's that gonna help if there's a tank full of dodgy diesel?...

you'll have to drain the tank, remove the fuel filter and pump through what's left in the pipes... put some nice diesel in and THEN see if the problem's solved...

additives are for cleaning injectors/fuel system, they won't improve on bad quality diesel.

[Steve Letts]

It wouldn't be a touch of water in the bio would it?
I know there's a light thats meant to tell you when the water trap is full, but if the switch is frozen etc, you could wind up with water in your fuel filter.
That would cause the engine to seem down on power etc.
Just a thought as it happened to my brother not so long ago.

[Apache]

how's that gonna help if there's a tank full of dodgy diesel?...

you'll have to drain the tank, remove the fuel filter and pump through what's left in the pipes... put some nice diesel in and THEN see if the problem's solved...

additives are for cleaning injectors/fuel system, they won't improve on bad quality diesel.

Running a bit better today (poss due to the half tank of Texaco getting through the system?) Power is OK lower down the revs, but useless above about 3k. I'm thinking fuel starvation due to ****ped up filter / duff fuel pump? I'm going to order a filter anyway, but will a bottle of Redex clear a path through the **** until I get a chance to replace the filter?

A filter change looks pretty straightforward. Is it?

[chunkymonkey]

It sounds very much like a filter problem to me... when was the last time yours was changed?

Biofuels being slightly more viscous than diesel tend to pick up any bits of crud that have accumulated in the tank and transport them into the fuel filter. This is especially noticable the first few times you use biodiesel. Probably nothing wrong with the biofuel.

Filter change is dead easy.

I run on used vegetable oil and have put a pre-filer in before the main one - it is a mercedes pre-filter - you can get them at halfrauds or from a merc dealer for about £2 ea. They are clear and contain a coarse plastic mesh which stops the worst of the crud getting to the filter. Being a coarse mesh they are re-usable to.

If you decide to do this - make sure you don't get a clear "bubble" petrol filters as the paper inside will disintegrate...

[andycook]

yep - sounds like a clogged fuel filter

[Uplander]

The moral of this story is : Do your homework before experimenting !....
Any other fuel than derv is likely to (chemically react) ie.cleanse all the plumbing twixt tank and engine, the fuel pump MAY halt some of this crud but it depends very much on how much crud there was in first place. As most of us are driving nine to fifteen year old trucks with relatively unknown history especially about servising, there is a good chance the filter has not been changed before...
If you are reliant upon this car as you say you are maybe you should stick to one fuel source. or get a batch of fuel filters , or get a smaller enginned conveyance...

[Apache]

It sounds very much like a filter problem to me... when was the last time yours was changed?

Biofuels being slightly more viscous than diesel tend to pick up any bits of crud that have accumulated in the tank and transport them into the fuel filter. This is especially noticable the first few times you use biodiesel. Probably nothing wrong with the biofuel.

Filter change is dead easy.

I run on used vegetable oil and have put a pre-filer in before the main one - it is a mercedes pre-filter - you can get them at halfrauds or from a merc dealer for about £2 ea. They are clear and contain a coarse plastic mesh which stops the worst of the crud getting to the filter. Being a coarse mesh they are re-usable to.

If you decide to do this - make sure you don't get a clear "bubble" petrol filters as the paper inside will disintegrate...

Car running normally again, which makes me think that this was a bad tank of fuel. However, I will change the fuel filter in my next round of servicing, and the pre-filter sounds like a plan. Thanks for all the comments.

[Apache]

The moral of this story is : Do your homework before experimenting !....
Any other fuel than derv is likely to (chemically react) ie.cleanse all the plumbing twixt tank and engine, the fuel pump MAY halt some of this crud but it depends very much on how much crud there was in first place. As most of us are driving nine to fifteen year old trucks with relatively unknown history especially about servising, there is a good chance the filter has not been changed before...
If you are reliant upon this car as you say you are maybe you should stick to one fuel source. or get a batch of fuel filters , or get a smaller enginned conveyance...

Do smaller engined cars not suffer in this way then? Yours puzzled.

[baw]

I would agree with the above, sounds very much like a fuel filter problem, I had exactly the same thing happen to me (but not quite as severe by the sounds of it, the engine didn't stop) when I first started using biodiesel. Was completely cured by a filter change (which I am proud to say I did myself!!)

I was told by the guy that I get my BD from that often it's the first few tankfuls that cause problems, as the solids that have been in the tank for years are suspended more easily and carried into the engine by the BD, because it is more viscous.

Of course, BD does tend to have suspended solids of its own in as well.

But most of all - WHERE ARE YOU GETTING BIODIESEL IN LIVERPOOL!!! I have to go to Manchester to get mine!


Marcus

[Apache]

I would agree with the above, sounds very much like a fuel filter problem, I had exactly the same thing happen to me (but not quite as severe by the sounds of it, the engine didn't stop) when I first started using biodiesel. Was completely cured by a filter change (which I am proud to say I did myself!!)

I was told by the guy that I get my BD from that often it's the first few tankfuls that cause problems, as the solids that have been in the tank for years are suspended more easily and carried into the engine by the BD, because it is more viscous.

Of course, BD does tend to have suspended solids of its own in as well.

But most of all - WHERE ARE YOU GETTING BIODIESEL IN LIVERPOOL!!! I have to go to Manchester to get mine!


Marcus

Prescot Road, the 'Town' side of Old Swan. Its about 1/2 a mile on the left after the traffic lights by Tesco. Currently 79p a litre.

[Morr]

......... as the solids that have been in the tank for years are suspended more easily and carried into the engine by the BD, because it is more viscous........

Not quite, their should be minimal difference between the viscosity of proper biodiesel and regular diesel, biodiesel is however a mild solvent (its actually used to help clean up oil tanker spillages!), and its this property which will loosen any crud in your tank or lines.

.........Of course, BD does tend to have suspended solids of its own in as well. ......

It most certainly should not! It should be able to pass thru a 5 micron filter, that's way smaller than the diameter of a human hair. If any fuel you are getting has any suspended solids, its not of acceptable quality, and certainly not proper biodiesel (rape-metyl-ester) as the conversion process when done properly will ensure that there are no particles remaining in the fuel, even when made from waste oil.