Getting stuck in sand

[bazyr]

Hi all

First off I wanna say that you guys have an awesome community going - this is my first post, but Iīve been reading the forum since I bought my Surf and itīs been an absolute mine of info. Anyway I had two months off and wanted to travel to Morocco with a friend and our kitesurf and windsurf kit - we decided on getting a Hilux for the reliability and selling it on afterwards, but Iīve kinda fallen in love with it :P

Weīre in Spain at the moment, been gone just over a week, and Iīve had a few issues getting really stuck in beachy sand, sometimes stuff that my old 2wd would have gone over pretty easily. Itīs always the rear wheels that get stuck, one or both lose traction and spin, and dig themselves in. The tyres are pretty big, canīt remember what type (landair AT traction?) with plenty of tread.

The Surfīs a 2nd gen, 2.4, manual. When I bought it the guy said the 4wd light didnīt work on the dash, but you can hear a relay click when you engage it and on the motorway thereīs a tiny lurch when you engage, so I assumed 4wd was working. High and low ratios seem to work fine.

This is my first 4wd so Iīm pretty clueless and would be really grateful for any advice before we hit Morocco. Is there something with the differential that you can lock on the Surf, or have I just got a dud 4wd?

On another note, in the south of France we passed a red UK Surf turning off a tollroad - exchanged frantic waves with a blonde lady in the passenger seat. Not any of you lot was it?

[marky]

Welcome to the FORUM , 1st off you need to sort out your 4wd issue & ensure its working ok. Soft sand is a killer iff youre not prepared Lowering your tyre pressure will give you better traction on soft sand for a start.

[Sancho]

For god's sake, don't turn the 4wd on whilst on the motorway. Don't turn it on when you're on any road, only on loose surfaces such as sand.....

Get under it and see if the 4wd is actually engaging.

[MattF]

As Marky said, lowering your tyre pressures is a must if you're driving on sand. It'll make a world of difference. Plus, keep your speed low.

Get the vehicle into 4WD and jack one of the front wheels up and see if it turns. If not, your 4WD is engaging.

[marky]

Also a BUCKET & SPADE is a must.

[SURFerRob]

on sand (as others have stated) lower the tyre pressures... down to 15psi if you have to... and dont go to fast (40 - 50kph or so at the most) if you get stuck, dont keep spinning the wheels, you are just digging deeper!! - if you have to lower the pressure even further (8 - 10psi)

DO NOT for the love of god, use 4wd on paved surfaces - sounds like you already have and maybe damaged something...

[BioHazard]

Need some waffel boards too



Oh and welcome to the nuthouse .........beware the squirrel

[Gizmo]

Definately lower your tyre pressures, but not too much without bead lockers to keep the tyres on the rims. (down to around 22-25psi and then gauge it).

Driving slower on sand or ice allows the wheels to compact the sand/snow and maintain momentum whilst speed will spin the wheels and dig in.

You need to check by the methods stated that your 4wd is engaging properly, although with the lurch it does initially seem as though it is working unless you were going round corners (on 1st and 2nd gens do not use 4wd on tarmac as you will end up with wind-up in the drivetrain which in the end will knacker them)

Heres some sites that might help with general info:
http://www.go-overland.com/
http://www.atlasoverland.com/
http://onelifeadventure.co.uk/
http://www.britishexpeditionvehicles...eperation.html
http://www.trailmasters.com/index.php

[bazyr]

Thanks for the replies guys!

We're in Morocco now, I've been avoiding deep/fine sand so far but would love to be able to sort the problem while we're out here...

I did try lowering the tyre pressures to around 30 PSI (the rating on the tyres says 55 PSI) which didn't seem to make much difference, and I wasn't sure whether going any lower would be healthy.

Already noticed the dire warnings about 2nd gen 4WD on tarmac so I've avoided using it entirely in the UK, except for trying to check it was working - the lurch I mentioned is tiny and I've only engaged it in a straight line on the motorway. Why is this - isn't it because the differential is locked?

The thing I don't get is surely if the front/rear differential locks then it wouldn't always be the rear wheels getting stuck, which seems to be the case? Also if I jack up a front wheel as you suggest and it doesn't spin, surely that means 4WD isn't working? Plus would that be a little dangerous on the jack?

On the plus side the Surf's been handling Moroccan rocks and inclines in its sleep so far

Cheers again for all the advice!

[Sancho]

Um....where to start?

Your tyres should be at about 30PSI in normal use, 55 is way too high.

There are two differentials on a 2nd gen surf, one at the front and one at the back. Neither is lockable. What pressing the 4wd button does (put simply) is lock the propshaft between the transfer box and the front diff and the driveshafts from the diff to the front wheels so that they also turn. Assuming you are in a dead straight line, the lurch you feel is the propshaft locking into the transfer case and the differential engaging with the driveshafts.

When we say jack it up, we mean with the engine off. With it in 2wd, the front wheel will spin freely as there is no resistance on it. With it in 4wd, it will not spin as it is connected to the driveshaft, the diff, the propshaft, the transfer case, the gearbox and the engine. I suppose you could turn it, but you would need to be Superman.

Presumably, the back wheels get stuck because they tend to be the 'downhill' bit with all the weight on them when you're going uphill. When you're going downhill, you have two tons of 4x4 helping your momentum.

And, seriously, please don't turn your 4wd on whilst you're on the motorway. Something very nasty could happen if you need to turn at speed.

[SURFerRob]

Thanks for the replies guys!

We're in Morocco now, I've been avoiding deep/fine sand so far but would love to be able to sort the problem while we're out here...

I did try lowering the tyre pressures to around 30 PSI (the rating on the tyres says 55 PSI) which didn't seem to make much difference, and I wasn't sure whether going any lower would be healthy.

Already noticed the dire warnings about 2nd gen 4WD on tarmac so I've avoided using it entirely in the UK, except for trying to check it was working - the lurch I mentioned is tiny and I've only engaged it in a straight line on the motorway. Why is this - isn't it because the differential is locked?

The thing I don't get is surely if the front/rear differential locks then it wouldn't always be the rear wheels getting stuck, which seems to be the case? Also if I jack up a front wheel as you suggest and it doesn't spin, surely that means 4WD isn't working? Plus would that be a little dangerous on the jack?

On the plus side the Surf's been handling Moroccan rocks and inclines in its sleep so far

Cheers again for all the advice!

that pressue is way to high for sand...

try it around 20 at 1st and see how you go...

when you are letting the tires down, its not the width of the tire that is increasing, it is the tread LENGTH allowing you to float on the sand.... and giving more grip...