London riots & The Bird feeder

[Predictable Bob]

Wot he said !

I've always thought that turning off the tap would create massive civil unrest BUT ...

Food stamps/coupons that are ONLY redeemable with proof of identity and only for essentials i.e. no fags, booze or luxury items might be a place to start (You can stuff the 'demeaning' argument too!)

Then all we need to do is to bring back flogging ...

[Apache]

Most of the gits are from generations of British families who have never worked, and never understood the need to work, because they get paid for not working.

Precisely, which was my reason for comparing the minimal amount of revenue created by immigrant workers compared to the black hole of cash sucked down by the welfare state.

And, though it would be nice, you can't "force" them to work.

I guess we're using the word 'force' in different contexts. A gun to the head isn't practical, but as 'Predictable' suggests, food stamps to be used for food only, and housing that merely meets the needs of the occupants would stimulate a large proportion of the lazy to accept work they would not normally accept.

[flounderbout]

Precisely, which was my reason for comparing the minimal amount of revenue created by immigrant workers compared to the black hole of cash sucked down by the welfare state.

I guess we're using the word 'force' in different contexts. A gun to the head isn't practical, but as 'Predictable' suggests, food stamps to be used for food only, and housing that merely meets the needs of the occupants would stimulate a large proportion of the lazy to accept work they would not normally accept.

I wasn't really taking issue with you Andy. Like I said, t'was the immigration angle that got my hackles raised, not the scrounging angle.

I like the food stamp for essentials only thing actually. But there is no government or opposition party in the foreseeable future or for that matter ever, with the balls.

Anyway, we should congratulate ourselves for having got this far without once mentioning National Service.

D'oh!

[slobodan]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Years ago when I lived in the UK, didn't you have to go down to the DHSS and 'sign on' for benefits every week.
This is not the case now is it?
That leaves things open to abuse doesn't it?

[Bogus]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Years ago when I lived in the UK, didn't you have to go down to the DHSS and 'sign on' for benefits every week.
This is not the case now is it?
That leaves things open to abuse doesn't it?

They had to stop that. All the white vans and mini cabs parked up outside were causing congestion, and then when you got in, there were too many people being injured by the window cleaner and sparky ladders, not to mention those who were getting asthma attacks from the plaster dust and paint fumes that were coming off the clothing of other claimants.

[slobodan]

They had to stop that. All the white vans and mini cabs parked up outside were causing congestion, and then when you got in, there were too many people being injured by the window cleaner and sparky ladders, not to mention those who were getting asthma attacks from the plaster dust and paint fumes that were coming off the clothing of other claimants.

:

[Tallyman]

There is a simple solution to the "Won't work" brigade. Make their benefits "in total" the minimum wage less 10%. That includes housing benefit.

Anyone working for the minimum wage will arrange their lifestyle to suit their income, so anyone who can't be ar$ed to get out of bed, however many kids they may have, should not be entitled to the same level of income as those that are willing to work.

Any immigrants, legal or illegal, should not be entitled to benefits until they have been here working and paying all relevant taxes & NI for at least two years. Asylum seekers, if they are genuinely fleeing oppression would be happy to just be in a country where they were not being pursued or persecuted, so living in a camp with food and shelter provided would meet their needs in full. Anyone not accepting that would very obviously not be genuine, so could be kicked out immediately.

Oh, and why not make it a hard & fast rule that anyone wanting to claim asylum in UK must present themselves to our embassy or consulate in the first "safe" country they reach after leaving their own and apply there. That would stop all these bogus asylum seekers from waiting in France for a chance to get across the Channel in the back of a lorry and then claiming asylum once they are here. Last time I checked, France wasn't a country with a mad dictator in power.

[Sclerotic Hen]

@Tallyman.
The rules of claiming asylum means that you are meant to claim in the first safe country you enter after fleeing your own. There are measures in place within the UK asylum process to try and make sure this adhered to.
It is very difficult for illegal immigrants to claim benefits. The illegal bit means they do not really want to make themselves known to the authorities.
There is an EU wide system of returning asylum applicants to the first safe country of entry. Asylum seekers as a rule are not allowed to work while their case are being adjudicated (although there are exceptions to this).

[Maverick]

There is a simple solution to the "Won't work" brigade. Make their benefits "in total" the minimum wage less 10%. That includes housing benefit.

Anyone working for the minimum wage will arrange their lifestyle to suit their income, so anyone who can't be ar$ed to get out of bed, however many kids they may have, should not be entitled to the same level of income as those that are willing to work.

Any immigrants, legal or illegal, should not be entitled to benefits until they have been here working and paying all relevant taxes & NI for at least two years. Asylum seekers, if they are genuinely fleeing oppression would be happy to just be in a country where they were not being pursued or persecuted, so living in a camp with food and shelter provided would meet their needs in full. Anyone not accepting that would very obviously not be genuine, so could be kicked out immediately.

Oh, and why not make it a hard & fast rule that anyone wanting to claim asylum in UK must present themselves to our embassy or consulate in the first "safe" country they reach after leaving their own and apply there. That would stop all these bogus asylum seekers from waiting in France for a chance to get across the Channel in the back of a lorry and then claiming asylum once they are here. Last time I checked, France wasn't a country with a mad dictator in power.

Have we been eating from the "that makes the most sense I've heard" tree today.

Won't ever happen because we do not have oposition parties anymore, they all sing from the same song sheet, just in slightly different keys. And most important, none of them have the balls to do it, they'd loose most of their voters, and human rights, childrens rights, and some other bleeding heart group would come flying at them.
After all it's the fault of all those working that there were riots, because the youth had nothing, so they felt oppressed (the English council house tenants round the corner from me have a damn sight more than me without lifting a finger, so don't ever let one of those scrotes tell me they have nothing).

[flounderbout]

There is a simple solution to the "Won't work" brigade. Make their benefits "in total" the minimum wage less 10%. That includes housing benefit.

Anyone working for the minimum wage will arrange their lifestyle to suit their income, so anyone who can't be ar$ed to get out of bed, however many kids they may have, should not be entitled to the same level of income as those that are willing to work.

Any immigrants, legal or illegal, should not be entitled to benefits until they have been here working and paying all relevant taxes & NI for at least two years. Asylum seekers, if they are genuinely fleeing oppression would be happy to just be in a country where they were not being pursued or persecuted, so living in a camp with food and shelter provided would meet their needs in full. Anyone not accepting that would very obviously not be genuine, so could be kicked out immediately.

Oh, and why not make it a hard & fast rule that anyone wanting to claim asylum in UK must present themselves to our embassy or consulate in the first "safe" country they reach after leaving their own and apply there. That would stop all these bogus asylum seekers from waiting in France for a chance to get across the Channel in the back of a lorry and then claiming asylum once they are here. Last time I checked, France wasn't a country with a mad dictator in power.

How do you feel like standing for Parliament Tally? You'd get my vote!

As for the human rights brigade, they make a lot of noise, but I seriously doubt they hold much sway with the vast bulk of voters, as opposed to a select few Guardianistas in Islington.

[Rustinho]

As for the human rights brigade, they make a lot of noise, but I seriously doubt they hold much sway with the vast bulk of voters, as opposed to a select few Guardianistas in Islington.

Ah, but didn't you know? The Guardianistas run everything from the BBC to parliamentary select committees!

[Tallyman]

Couldn't run for Parliament. I don't overclaim expenses, lie to everyone or want to pander to voters despite my beliefs, so I'd be singularly underqualified to join. And I read the Daily Mail!!!!!!!!!!!!, so that would alienate half the voters (and half the forum members) straight away.