heating oil

[Nkerridge]

Spoke to a chap recently about using veggie oil, and he said that he uses heating oil and redex octane, this is proberly not legal, but could it hurt the truck?? he reckons not, but at 65p a litre it merits a go.

[schrodingers-cat]

Here`s some of the pitfalls

Ok - its Illegal to use Red Diesel on the road -if you need a tax disc on a road then it applies. You can use it OFF road- IE your vehicle never goes off a farm or private land. There is NO DIFFERENCE between RED or normal pump diesel - except some RED diesels have a slightly lower octane rating - less bang for your buck - BUT it has the SAME viscosity rating - Im sure farmer giles and his 100 grand tractor wont be taking any chances putting a sub standard fuel into his pride and joy. IT IS possible to remove the red dye from the diesel a usual urban myth being the famous (yawns) 'fullers earth' trick- however this comes at a price -if you 'filter' red diesel to remove its colour your end product WILL lose its lubricating qualities - good bye engine hello repair bills. The RED dye stains everything it comes into contact with in your vehicle -fuel filters - lines - tank- everything.Yes it can be flushed out but it will take a while and there is no 'quick fix'. There IS a a way you can dye the RED diesel to another colour - a dye thats readily available will dye it BLUE. Blue diesel is NOT illegal to use on the road but theres a catch - when the RED dye is added to normal diesel at the refinery it carries a 'chemical code' - this means that no matter how you try and dye the RED diesel, filter the colour, bleach it - in fact anything you can think of it still retains its RED chemical code.

So, you dye, remove, filter the RED diesel and put it in your tank - you get a tug by VOSA as (surprise surprise) you are driving a 4x4 and they are heavily used by farmers who have easy access to RED diesel and you are informed that they are going to dip your tank - ha ha you think - no problem its not RED anymore...oh dear, what you didnt count on was VOSA man is equipped with more than a dipping stick.... VOSA man pulls out a swab and smiles at you ...at this point you kinda get the impression that VOSA man may be getting the upper hand.. he swabs your exhaust ..(remember that chemical signature from earlier?)..He then asks you how you intend to pay the fine ....oh, and maybe your mate better pick you up as you wont be driving anywhere as of right there and then.

Having red (no pun) up on things I reckon veg oil is a better way to go -Heres a thought - RED is approx 95p a litre - Pump diesel is 1.35- thats 40p approx difference - so 100 litres is £40 'saved' 1000 litres is £400 'saved'
10000 litres is £4000 'saved'.

There is an argument that you were going to pay the road excise duty on the RED diesel -and as its paid retrospectively you may have grounds to argue that you ARE going to pay the duty etc. However VOSA man has probably heard every excuse under the sun and as a govenment agent he will have the Customs and Excise behind him 100%. (Or in English - they've got more mates than you have)


THE bottom line is this.......
It is a criminal offence that could attract unlimited fines, the confiscation of fuel or vehicles or even a prison sentence

It is a criminal offence to Misuse or supply red diesel or mix it with any other fuel. It is also an offence to move any designated chemical marker or dye from the red diesel or add anything that might counteract the marker.

People or organisations caught misusing red diesel can be dealt with ‘administratively’ by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; that is, fined or otherwise punished without going to court. However anyone who feels they have been wrongly treated in this process can appeal to HMRC within 45 days of the original decision for an Independent Review Officer to re-examine the decision made. If still unhappy the matter can be appealed to the VAT and Duties Tribunal within 30 days. ...Yeah and Im sure you or I stand no chance of winning that one


You may think Im being a bit harsh or taking the mick - but forewarned is forearmed

PHEW!...
Im certain somones gonna correct me and say its all possible etc etc etc - ok by me - Im not here to have an argument - but then Im not the one trying to save £20 on a tank full... LORD knows I begrudge it just as much as anyone else!

Saying that i`ve never had a pull and got my fuel tested in 35 years on the road

[gwh200]

What a great big crock of BS. If a VOSA man swabbed an exhaust, what "chemical" Marker would he find. He would find soot, particulates of various unburnt, upto furnaced, fuel. He might find some free radicals, perhaps in the residual exhaust fumes. If a sample was taken away, in a vacumn, and perhaps analysed via a mass spectrometer, then maybe...a weeny chance...you might find out the original fuel cour...but swabbing the exhaust pipe. Bollix.

[kpautos]

erm, i think i will go with the dont use it post!!

[schrodingers-cat]

Here`s a whole thread on the subject
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/showthread.php?t=52807

[Diezel Weazel]

HMRC are not fools...... nor are EHO ....
All I will say is Heating Oil is NOT a road Fuel ....
A close relative (Pickey) has had his Vehicle disposed off for running (Cherry) Red Diesel with Veg oil !!

Jess
nearly 10 years of Surfs
"Cos short cuts can cost more in the long run"

[flounderbout]

Isn't using vegetable oil (without notifying HMRC and paying duty) illegal too - see here

See in particular:
"Can I use vegetable oil in my car if I mix it with normal diesel?
You can use vegetable oil in your car and mix it with diesel (vegetable oil is generally used as a substitute for diesel) but you will have to make arrangements to pay the Excise Duty to HMRC. See question 'How do I notify Revenue & Customs that I am using cooking oil in my vehicle?'.

Important Note: It is illegal to run your car on any fuel substitute without having first paid us the duty."

Or is there some exception that they don't mention?

[stormforce]

Isn't using vegetable oil (without notifying HMRC and paying duty) illegal too - see here

See in particular:
"Can I use vegetable oil in my car if I mix it with normal diesel?
You can use vegetable oil in your car and mix it with diesel (vegetable oil is generally used as a substitute for diesel) but you will have to make arrangements to pay the Excise Duty to HMRC. See question 'How do I notify Revenue & Customs that I am using cooking oil in my vehicle?'.

Important Note: It is illegal to run your car on any fuel substitute without having first paid us the duty."

Or is there some exception that they don't mention?

The laws changed on it a couple of years or so ago.
You can use 2500l a year without notifying them but you need to keep receipts of all fuel used for up to 6 years

[flounderbout]

The laws changed on it a couple of years or so ago.
You can use 2500l a year without notifying them but you need to keep receipts of all fuel used for up to 6 years

Ah yes.
Notice 179E
4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

■any biofuel, or
■any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

4.9.1 Exempt producers’ records
If you are an exempt producer (as defined in paragraph 4.2.1) you only need to record and keep the following information:

■the date of each supply and/or own use
■the amount in standard litres of each supply or own use.

Hope all you vege oil users are keeping a record of the date and amount of litres that you put in every time you fill up...

[Apache]

Funny that. I used to use 2499.9 litres a year...

[slobodan]

I would be interested to know if it will hurt the truck.
I sometimes run on heating oil and from next month have access to a real good supply of it.
I'm not interested in whether you should or not from a legal perspective.

[Albannach]

Once people decide exactly what it is they're talking about and exactly what it is they want, giving specifications will be much easier.

But as a taster, Diesel has a GCV (MJ kg−1) of 46 as does Gas oil (which is where the Googlers are getting mixed up), Kerosine is 47.

[slobodan]

Once people decide exactly what it is they're talking about and exactly what it is they want, giving specifications will be much easier.

But as a taster, Diesel has a GCV (MJ kg−1) of 46 as does Gas oil (which is where the Googlers are getting mixed up), Kerosine is 47.

I love it when you talk like that,