Airplane on a Conveyor conundrum

[dieselboy]

You are doing this on purpose, aren't you. come on admit it!!!

its einsteins theory of relativity ive been told.

another scenario:

if you walk away from a door at 10mph, then the door is going away from you at 10mph.
but the door never moves does it!

so neither does the conveyor belt


i honestly cannot explain this any simpler.
if you dont understand then dont read the rest of this topic cos it will hurt your head lol

[Chillitt]

From the original question... "If the aircraft is moving forwards at 10mph, then the conveyor will move backwards at 10mph."

THE CONVEYOR WILL MOVE!!! it doesn't say relative to the plane, it just says move! It's a conveyor belt- thats what they do!!!

[Slugsie]

now when you read you explanation, you see your numbers get muddled up, and dont equate.
and you see that mine dont do that.

Sorry, I see you explanation, and I understand how you are coming to your conclusions. Also, to make it more fun, we've come different ways around the roundabout and arrived at the same point (in this case, the aircraft lifting off).

But that doesn't change the fact that as far as I am concerned you are deliberately misreading how you measure the speed of the conveyor. If you measure the speed of the aircraft relative to the fixed ground, then you also have to do the same for the conveyor. If you want to try and measure the speed of the conveyor relative to the speed of the plane, then next time a cop car pulls you over for speeding past him try and use the defense that your speed relative to his was only (say) 15mph and see how far that gets you.

The whole point of using a conveyor is that it does move. The whole point is that if you replaced the airplane with a car, that the car would not move relative to the ground (in the same way you don't move relative to the ground when running on a treadmill).

[dieselboy]

From the original question... "If the aircraft is moving forwards at 10mph, then the conveyor will move backwards at 10mph."

THE CONVEYOR WILL MOVE!!! it doesn't say relative to the plane, it just says move! It's a conveyor belt- thats what they do!!!

and again:..

[point 1]
The conveyor belt is computer controlled such that its speed is always the same as that of the aircraft - only backwards. I.e. If the aircraft is moving forwards at 10mph, then the conveyor will move backwards at 10mph.

[point 2]

*** Clarification - Edit ***
The aircrafts speed is measured relative to fixed point on the ground, and not relative to the moving conveyor

so here we see that relative to the aircraft, the conveyor will appear to be going backwards at 10mph. but only its not moving at all.


IF you had said that the conveyor speed was the negative of the aircrafts, relative to the fixed point in the ground THEN this arguement would be about how the plane WILL NOTbe able take off.

if anything, you should be thanking me for proving your plane will take off lol

[Chillitt]

if anything, you should be thanking me for proving your plane will take off lol

But we all knew that....

[Slugsie]

its einsteins theory of relativity ive been told.

another scenario:

if you walk away from a door at 10mph, then the door is going away from you at 10mph.
but the door never moves does it!

so neither does the conveyor belt


i honestly cannot explain this any simpler.
if you dont understand then dont read the rest of this topic cos it will hurt your head lol

But the door isn't actively trying to match your speed, but in a different direction is it? It's just sitting still. If the door was able to move, and had been told 'When he moves North at 10mph, you move South at 10mph' then when I start walking north, that door had damn well better start walking south.

BTW, this is nothing to do with the theory of relativity, that's more to do with the affect on time of speed.

[yoshie]

So inane drivvel is the secret to 2770 post per year

[Slugsie]

and again:..



so here we see that relative to the aircraft, the conveyor will appear to be going backwards at 10mph. but only its not moving at all.


IF you had said that the conveyor speed was the negative of the aircrafts, relative to the fixed point in the ground THEN this arguement would be about how the plane WILL NOTbe able take off.

if anything, you should be thanking me for proving your plane will take off lol

No no no no no.

If, as stated, the aircrafts speed isn't measured relative to the conveyor, then there is no way in hell that it becomes even slightly reasonable to measure the conveyors speed as being relative to the aircraft which is what you are doing.

[Slugsie]

What about if we replace the airplanes wheels with castors (or some other wheel like mechanism that is free to rotate in any direction), and have a conveyor that is set to move at the same speed but at 90degrees to the aircraft? How does that work for you?

[dieselboy]

Sorry, I see you explanation, and I understand how you are coming to your conclusions. Also, to make it more fun, we've come different ways around the roundabout and arrived at the same point (in this case, the aircraft lifting off).

But that doesn't change the fact that as far as I am concerned you are deliberately misreading how you measure the speed of the conveyor.
well, all you specified was that the conveyor was always going the opposite of the plane. as far as im concerned, in all my outcomes, the conveyor always has been going the same speed but the opposite of the plane
If you measure the speed of the aircraft relative to the fixed ground, then you also have to do the same for the conveyor.
you never said this. and if this were to happen, it gives a completely different outcome, and you would in fact be wrong in your answer to say that the plane would take off.

If you want to try and measure the speed of the conveyor relative to the speed of the plane, then next time a cop car pulls you over for speeding past him try and use the defense that your speed relative to his was only (say) 15mph and see how far that gets you.
if i were to be going passed him at 40 in a 30, and he pulls me over. then relative to him i was in fact going 40. you dont seem to understand the relation here. if he was in the next lane travelling in the same direction as me, and doing 10mph, and i was still doing 40mph, then relative to him i would be doing 30mph and he wouldnt pull me over because even his radar gun would say 30mph.

The whole point of using a conveyor is that it does move. The whole point is that if you replaced the airplane with a car, that the car would not move relative to the ground (in the same way you don't move relative to the ground when running on a treadmill).
this is why i used tescos and a car, so as i didnt confuse

this brings me on to my next point.
imagine this scenario again, the plane takes off at 10mph. you stand on the ground and point a radar gun at the plane, the gun reads 10mph. perfect

you now get in the plane, and it takes off again at 10mph. you open the back door and point the radar gun at the ground. the gun reads 10mph.

the gun isnt broke. the gun isnt saying the ground is moving.
do you see what im saying?

[dieselboy]

But the door isn't actively trying to match your speed, but in a different direction is it? It's just sitting still. If the door was able to move, and had been told 'When he moves North at 10mph, you move South at 10mph' then when I start walking north, that door had damn well better start walking south.

BTW, this is nothing to do with the theory of relativity, that's more to do with the affect on time of speed.

whatever.
the door is still going away from me the same speed as im going away from the door.

[dieselboy]

What about if we replace the airplanes wheels with castors (or some other wheel like mechanism that is free to rotate in any direction), and have a conveyor that is set to move at the same speed but at 90degrees to the aircraft? How does that work for you?

feck knows.
why throw a spanner in the works like that lol...

i'll get back to you once ive answered your other post

[Slugsie]

if i were to be going passed him at 40 in a 30, and he pulls me over. then relative to him i was in fact going 40. you dont seem to understand the relation here. if he was in the next lane travelling in the same direction as me, and doing 10mph, and i was still doing 40mph, then relative to him i would be doing 30mph and he wouldnt pull me over because even his radar gun would say 30mph.

So, if you overtake a cop car who is doing the speed limit, he'll not pull you over for speeding because the difference between you is less than the speed limit?

OK, I want you as my lawyer if I ever get pulling over.

[dieselboy]

No no no no no.

If, as stated, the aircrafts speed isn't measured relative to the conveyor, then there is no way in hell that it becomes even slightly reasonable to measure the conveyors speed as being relative to the aircraft which is what you are doing.

well thats what you said!

its speed is always the same as that of the aircraft - only backwards

ive done what you (the question) asked!

[Slugsie]

well, all you specified was that the conveyor was always going the opposite of the plane. as far as im concerned, in all my outcomes, the conveyor always has been going the same speed but the opposite of the plane

Well, as far as I am concerned, it hasn't.