bull

[nero279]

we've seen the alliance against urban 4x4s site, apparently now Honda are standing up to the antis by issuing buyers of the CR-V with a window sticker and letter explaining that it's not a bad car and that it's a green 4x4 (call me cynical but it sounds like they're bowing to the greenies rather than standing up to them!).

This, this is just taking the $$$$ big style, no fact just pure bull and a few links to search engine results.

http://www.4x4xbye.co.uk/index.html

[nero279]

this is just funny though, their songs made me laugh how do they expect anyone to take 'It's my choice' seriously??? http://www.myspace.com/stopurban4x4s

[RodLeach]

I reeeeeally HATE these kinds of people! They are so pathetic i try an avoid giving them more then two seconds of my time!!!


Problem is...i'd like to see them all get blown up! but then its "BAN THE BAN BRIGADE"

[RodLeach]

after reading those websites!

Ohhhhhhh how foolish i have been!

Im going to sell my surf because i REEEAAAAALY value these peoples opinions.

[MudSurfer]

And they just got this from me.....

I agree to a certain extent that there are a lot of 4x4s in towns and cities, that perhaps could be other vehicles, i.e. MPVs - families needing space to transport children, shopping, luggage, clutter about - my sister has 2 young children and drives a Mondeo estate, which she says is too small, for 2 kids worth of stuff, but the people who bought them, wanted them.

In the country towns and villages, there are a similar number of 4x4s, most of which will never see anything worse than the gravel on their driveway, but there are also a lot of people who use them for off road use, or rescue and recovery.

So, in terms of your 'facts' most 4x4s take up the same or less space than large saloons, use less fuel and produce less emissions than most large saloons and estates and sports cars, are driven more slowly, and therefore are driven within the tolerance of the manufacturer, and therefore the emissions are within the threshold stated. Whereas sports cars, large saloons etc are usually driven above the expected tolerance and as such use more fuel and generate more emissions than those stated by the manufacturer, being higher than those produced by 4x4s.

I would also advise that the generalised term of 4x4 is stopped - Audi make a 4x4 estate, as do Volvo - does that mean your campaign wants those off the road too? Fiat have a 4x4 Panda - does that have to be waved goodbye to?

If you get your wish, and all 4x4s are taken off the road, what happens to motorway patrol and rescue, AA & RAC recovery, doctors on call, and those people like me, who use their vehicle and spare time on recovering vehicles during exteme weather, meals on wheels to remote locations, and offroad adventure trips at the weekend.

This kind of generalisation does not help your cause at all, instead it enflames arguments based on the wrong information and view point. I agree with the list of information you have on this site, and for most places in the UK, that's fine, but if I had to use public transport, I would never get to work on time, or be able to go on holiday without having to leave a day early to take into account bus schedules, etc.

We do not have too many viable options in the UK yet, unless you live in a city or large town, which I don't. Lots of 4x4 (and I mean SUV) users have converted to LPG - have you considered that anywhere in your campaign?? Lots of the people I know, including myself, run theirs on veg oil - don't see you taking that into consideration in your argument either.

Vans, taxis, Luton vans, large saloons, old cars, sports cars etc, all produce higher emissions than most '4x4s' and take up more physical space on the road, your constant over generalisaion does not help your argument, and you are also overlooking one key point - freedom of choice.

I would suggest you contact some '4x4' clubs and get an alternative point of view, learn a little more about the people and their lives before you continue with a narrow minded approach to this - where your incorrect labelling of a vehicle type and poor argument about emissions, size etc. are losing you credibility.

[MudSurfer]

Is that a Paj on her chest???

I think there is a cream she can get for that - and as for X5s......don't get me started on those!

[stormforce]

Is that a Paj on her chest???

I think there is a cream she can get for that - and as for X5s......don't get me started on those!

i don't know about a paj on her chest but i do know what i would like on her chest

[MudSurfer]

i don't know about a paj on her chest but i do know what i would like on her chest

A Range Rover??


Funny isn't it that most of the people making a fuss about this are the kind of people that are rarely taken seriously on any topic, look like chavvy drop out losers......

[stormforce]

seriously tho these people get on my t1t5 aswell.They ought to see how much $$$$ they're own vehicle is pumping out and what mpg its doing then come back and start moaning about it all when they have 100% of the facts,

[nero279]

Whatever the rest of the facts, no vehicle produces emissions when it's switched off so why should parking charges be emissions based? Although you could (i think) argue that batteries only have a limited life expectancy wether they are used or not hence the new hybrids actually do pollute while they are switched off.

Size based, fair enough. We drive one of the longer 4x4s and it's still shorter than a focus estate, or even i believe mondeo saloon. Width well we're well within the legal width limits and we can park in a normal width parking space with no problems. Height we're restricted by height bars, so we already have less choice of where we can park and it doesn't increase the space we're taking up on the roads or in car parks, so why should that be penalised?

Road tax, let's see what the pressure we exert on the roads is compared to say a fiesta, i'm talking pressure he're, ie) force/area. Our roads should be constructed to tolerate far heavier vehicles than our own anyway.

If our vehicles are so uneconomical and polluting we are paying for that at the pump anyway, most of which is going directly to the government in tax anyway so why should we be taxed further.

I'm tempted to formulate a letter with gathered facts and post it on every anti website i can find, see if it actually gets any factual researched response.

[MudSurfer]

I used to have a Volvo S60 - which is the same length and width as my Surf......

[laser_jock99]

Oh dear...



has just become...

[MudSurfer]

Oh dear...



has just become...

Love it - you just see if you can get that onto their site......

[sledge]

nice one