Please help me decide on what to get.

[Gold5th]

Hello all.

I’m posting this on both a Pajero board and a Hilux board.

I want to buy a small diesel SUV. Over here in Canada, those just don’t exist. So of course I’m looking at a JDM one, not because I want on the RHD bandwagon (We’re LHD over here). I want one because it’s a way to get a low mileage diesel SUV in good shape for a reasonable cost. A few people who have landed ones are trying to sell them for twice what they could be imported for.

Now on to the reason of the post.

Both a Pajero and Hilux are about the same size, similar curb weights, similar power (The Pajero has I think 7HP more, TQ is the same).

I’m trying to decide between the two. Now a Toyota is a Toyota and I should die before it does… The Mitsu has won the Dakar (sp?) so many times…

I’ve had a Dodge badged Mistu diesel Pick up – an 83 D50 with the 2.3L TD, great truck, awesome in the snow… not the fastest thing, but that’s not what I’m after. It died because the old fellow who I bought it from replaced the head with one from a wrecker and didn’t torque the head bolts properly. So on the compression stroke of the #2 cylinder my oil and cooling systems were getting extra pressure. This led to pretty much a total engine failure one December day when it was about -40.

I would like creature comforts like a sunroof, A/C (I rarely use it, but it would be nice to have), power windows and door locks, leather seats…. Etc. But my main goal is fuel mileage; currently I drive a 1987 Chrysler Fifth Ave, a mid sized 4000lbs car with a 318 V8, 3spd auto and a 2.2 rear end. So my highway mileage is great – 28-38mpg depending on the temperature out side. City isn’t so great.

Now before people go recommend a small diesel car, like a jetta or what not, I haul quite a bit, I’ve towed cars with my fifth; weekly I tow about 1000lbs worth of newspapers in a trailer, etc, etc. Plus I live in a small town that is quite hilly; winter can be fun with 2wd.

Oh also a 5 or 6spd manual is a must.

So if you kind people could let me know some selling points like tow ratings, economy examples that would be great. Try and help me choose between the two. Looks aren’t a huge factor, but I do like the look of a Pajero over a Hilux. Also with a Pajero if I do go that route I’d need to figure out what’s better for me a 3dr or the 5door exceed.

Thank you
Heath

[Fordy]

I want to buy a small diesel SUV. Over here in Canada, those just don’t exist. So of course I’m looking at a JDM one

What does JDM mean? From what you write I infer you want a Japanese import, but I might be wrong If you do want a Jap import you'll be lucky to get a manual but it's not unheard of. Again Jap cars don't have leather as norm.

If I was to choose between a 2nd gen Surf and a 5 door Pajero I'd choose the Surf. I did

If I was to choose between a 3rd gen Surf and a Mitsubishi I'd choose a Challenger. I did Flame me...



Whatever you choose...I'm off to Canmore in December, can I borrow it

[Gold5th]

I can only import a 15yr old vehicle(or older), so a 1991 or 1992
jdm- japanese domestic market.

I've been looking at some auctions and some have leather.

[nero279]

a surf of that age would be a 2nd gen and 99% a 2.4 TD, Pajero of the same age could be mk1 or mk2. i think the mk2 Paj was introduced in 91, With the mk2 paj came the 2.8 intercooled TD Mitsi engine although that may not have been introduced til later, the most common engine would be the 2.5 TD.

You won't find a six speed box in either, choices in both are a 4 speed auto or five speed manual i think. The autos always the more common.

Leather seems to be more common in Pajero's than surfs, and i would say you may be more likely to find a Paj with heated seats and stuff. Undoubtedly the Paj has the advantage for passenger carrying, as the surf rear seats really aren't comfortable. I would say the surf has the edge on towing even against a 2.8 engined mitsi. I have seen both well loaded up and would definately prefer to be driving a surf heavily loaded than a pajero.

I know you say looks shouldn't really come into it, but any surf is far more appealing than a mk1 paj, the mk2 paj looks ok IMO.

What i would actually boil it down to is which drivetrain suits you best, a surf with no centre diff so can't be left in 4wd on tarmac, but it does have on-the-fly shifting so you haven't got to stop to change in and out of 4wd, also common is a Limited Slip rear diff.
Or the mitsubishi drivetrain which i think is open diffs all round with difflocks, so could be driven round in 4 Hi all day long, but you would have to stop to engage the diff lock or shift to low ratio, the Paj forum guys will confirm this. Are there any gains in being able to drive round in 4wd if the diffs are open? ok so you've got power to all 4 wheels but once one breaks traction surely the open diff sends the power to the wheel with no traction causing it to spin even more?

The other thing to bear in mind is the availability of wisdom and spares where you are? I know we have a fair few canadian members on here now, who have had varying experiences in this respect, how do the Pajero's compare?

The above is intended to be as unbiased as possible, now for my honest opinion- Surf's rock, it'll be the only car you ever actually fall in love with, it's in it's own league as far as driveability, character, and most importantly, grin factor are concerned!

[TOYOTATONY]

Surf's rock, it'll be the only car you ever actually fall in love with, it's in it's own league as far as driveability, character, and most importantly, grin factor are concerned![/quote]

Here Here !!!!!!!!!!! Surfs are the Mutt's nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RodLeach]

I pretty much agree with nero on all his points!

I dont really know much about the mitsu's so i cant really judge.

But....i can tell you that the surf has been perfect for any need of mine,

before my current auto i owned a 1990 2.4 Manual and it was a great truck, Manual is easily available in the pre face lift models which with your age range you would be looking at.

The surf has a bundle more room in the back then the Pajero! It might be a case of your able with the rear seats down to fit a large portion of what you need to tow in the truck itself!


Its a Toyota, So spare parts are available and with the way the world is now you can get anything sent anywhere so dont let it put you off if for some reason parts are not readily available.

Straight from japan means that rust should not be a problem but i spose this too applys to the paj,

Just be aware of the flaws of both machines, The 2.4 is as you should be aware well known for blowing heads! Im not sure if that would be a problem in -40 degrees though!

For me the surf is the perfect all rounder, Its very capable off road, Its a great daily drive, loads of room, seats 5! (perhaps not in comfort in the back but none the less)

Plus they do look stunning

[jeff.fn02jwa]

get a surf as apjero is just not a SURF GO TO YOUTUBE AND ENTER SURFS UP 4X4 AND SEE ME AND MY SURF AT PLAY

[Gold5th]

Hmm

Well with my old D50 (same drive train as a mkI paj)I used 4hi for bad roads in the winter... most times I had the front hubs un-locked, only locked them if I was staying in town(for the hills) so I would need 4hi on mixed terrain dry/slippery... most times I'm not turning corners, but you never know...

The head issue mentioned for the Hilux concerns me a little.. we hit 35 deg C in the summer quite a bit.... I also read on an Aussie board an issue about a steering component that can fail in the Hilux's.

Now on the Paj side, I know the 2.3L TD they were known for the head cracking, and my D50 did, before I got it.

So far this is what the Paj guys said:

Reasons to buy Pajero
1. Build Quality
2. Higher Spec
3.Better drive comfort

Reasons to buy HI-Lux
1. Will take you to hell and back
2. Not as heavy on diesel as the Pajero.

But the only guy there to reply says a Hilux would be better for me...

Hmmmm there's a guy selling a Hilux right now... 55,000km, winch, hitch, fog lights.... but auto... also about $2000-$4000 more than what I could import one for.... but it's landed and I could test drive it before buying it. I think insurance is a little higher on the Paj too, like $4 more a month...

I should add it might see light off roading... nothing major like rock crawling or huge mud pits...

[Gold5th]

Can anybody post up mileage numbers.. like how many km/tank they get?

Thank you

[Woodzie]

Have you tried the yotatec guys ..........they are us based and may be able to give you infomation us brits don't have, and there is a lot of canadians on there as well........
http://www.yotatech.com/index.php

[Gold5th]

Have you tried the yotatec guys ..........they are us based and may be able to give you infomation us brits don't have, and there is a lot of canadians on there as well........
http://www.yotatech.com/index.php

I dunno, diesel versions weren't available over here for regular sale.. the only way we got them was one-off importing..

So on the engine side you guys prolly have more info...

[Woodzie]

I dunno, diesel versions weren't available over here for regular sale.. the only way we got them was one-off importing..

So on the engine side you guys prolly have more info...

i get about 450 -480 kms out of a 60 ltr tank


Oh have a look here aswell.........
http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/

[dieselboy]

Surf's rock, it'll be the only car you ever actually fall in love with, it's in it's own league as far as driveability, character, and most importantly, grin factor are concerned!

Here Here !!!!!!!!!!! Surfs are the Mutt's nuts!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
i agree too. my friend just has a pajero 2.8td with the difflocks and heated seats, pitch display and some other bits. it feels a little bigger than my 2.4td surf and has 7 seats instead of my 5. also it feels like it has bit more torque from when you first put your foot down, but feels the same overall.
but even though he has a little bit more gadgets, i have nice confortable recaro seats, even sitting in the back of mine is more comfortable. i dont like how his doors are, they are heavier than mine and skinnier, they feel odd.
us surf owners can lower our rear window into the tailgate. which is nice.
as someone said, 4wd shifting on the fly. means no stopping.
i would say the surf looks more sportier than the pajero too.
i used to drive customers cars for years. and i have liked surfs since then. nothing has caught me in the same way.

[Gold5th]

I know with Pajero's you can shift into the fisrt 4hi without stopping upto 100km/h 4hilocked I think you have to slow down or stop for. My only 4x4 I had manual front hubs that I kept unlocked plus the internal shifter.. so mos times i needed o stop, lock the hubs, then put it into 4hi..

I could see the rear window being a pain.... well more so than a bennifit.

Pajero 2.5 and Surf 2.4 have the same amount of torque... the Pajero has 104hp to the surf's 97 based off a site I found.

Milage appears to be similar.. well very close a guy on the Pajero board posted 660km with a 92L tank, but he has 33"s and a huge roof rack. With his numbers and the ones above it's about $10 differance over 1000km. But could be as little as $3.00

Ohh choices choices... grrr