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With many more of us getting arm-twisted by Channel 4 to go and buy a place in the sun, I thought at least a few of you might find it useful to read about my experience of re-registering my Surf in France.
I've got a 1992 SSR-X, purchased in the UK in 2004. As I live in France most of the time, it was going to be helpful for me to get it properly insured over there. A lot of people with UK-reg cars in France tend to keep with their UK insurance, and just pretend the car is in the UK. I had a few issues with this:
- French insurance tends to be a bit cheaper (though not always true, since it's calculated primarily on the value of the vehicle, rather than horsepower etc.)
- Living in France means that getting the UK tax disc renewed is a bit of an arse.
- If I ever did need to make a claim, the UK insurance is probably invalid anyway (should they ever cross-check with passport records etc.)
So anyway, many French insurers will insure UK-reg cars for a limited period. Some I think do up to 12 months, but we went with AXA (cos they do our house insurance too) which gave us 6 months in which to re-register the car. At that point I told the DVLA that the car was exported. In hindsight that was probably a mistake.
Typically, the holy trinity of French paperwork for obtaining the Carte Grise (registration document) are:
- Certificate of Conformity (a statement by the manufacturer attesting to it's manufactured roadworthiess for France)
- Controle Technique (French MOT certificate)
- Quittance Fiscale (essentially a receipt which shows you've paid for the car)
Not hard, you'd think. In fact, the only easy bit for me was getting the Quittance Fiscale, which was free and just required me to go to my local Hotel des Impots with my original receipt.
I needed to request the Certificate of Conformity (CoC) from Toyota France. After a couple of weeks trying to get hold of the right department to contact, I eventually got address and price details. I sent off a cheque for 115 Euro, along with a copy of the UK reg papers and (as requested) some photos of the car.
I'd expected that the CoC would give me an indication of anything that needed to be changed on the car. I was pretty sure the headlights would need to be changed, since the beam points in the wrong direction for France and, annoyingly, Surf headlights aren't adjustable like that. However ordering parts and booking any work in was going to be a major undertaking, so I waited for the CoC to arrive, just to be sure.
And waited. It took Toyota six months to send the CoC, and even then it wasn't one for the Surf (i.e. not the LN130). I suspect it was for a 4Runner (incidentally, just called the 'Runner' in France if you're interested) but not sure.
In the midst of this, the car developed some problems. The speedo broke (needle wouldn't move) and the brake lines started leaking fluid over the discs (nice and safe, obviously). So in it went to the local Toyota dealer (this is still with me waiting for the CoC) who gave an estimate of 4 days for repair. I think in total they had the car for 5 weeks, with a final bill of 1800 Euro. Still, at least now I could tell what speed I was going, and my risk of killing pedestrians when braking for a zebra crossing was significantly reduced. I did ask them whether they knew what was required for French conformity, but they couldn't give conclusive answers.
Still waiting for the CoC (and getting more and more furious at Toyota's inaction) I decided to order some lights anyway. The dealer had quoted me 200Euro per light, which i thought was ridiculous. I then had the bright idea (har har) of ordering lights from the USA, since they also drive on the wrong side of the road. Some Ebaying later, I had a price - $69 each, plus $25 to ship the pair. Done.
Lights came, and bar some minor connectivity issues (detailed in another thread) I got them installed correctly in the car. Still frustrated at waiting for the CoC, and with our 6-month limit rapidly approaching, we booked in the car for its Controle Technique (MOT). It passed, but with some concern over the lights - which (being US) threw out in the right direction, but with completely the wrong beam pattern. The CT guy told me that he wanted them changed before the next CT (every two years), but when I told him I was trying to get a Carte Grise, was at pains to explain that the Controle Technique is not an indication of import roadworthiness. I still think that's just nuts, but c'est la France.
Somewhat broken-spirited by this stage, I bit the bullet and bought some French lights - 180Euros each. I reasoned that tt was going to have to be done at some stage...
Anyway, the CoC finally came. I had that, the Quittance Fiscale, and the Controle Technique certificate, so off to the Prefecture I skipped, praying that all was in order. No such luck. The sour-faced Prefecture guy took one look at the CoC from Toyota and sent me away again. The CoC listed specific differences between my Surf and the car (let's say a 4Runner) to which their records referred. Specifically:
- Lights (direction of, and the fact that they wouldn't have a European 'E' stamp on them)
- Seatbelts (same thing about the 'E' stamp)
- Right-hand drive (like I can do anything about that!)
- Automatic (ditto)
- Bullbar on the front (frowned upon)
It turns out that these differences had to be independently assessed by the DRIRE (not sure what the UK-equivalent is, but for any Kiwis it's roughly the same as the LTSA). DRIRE are the government department responsible (amongst other things) for all this vechicle testing and roadworthiness stuff. Another appointment, more waiting, more money.
The 'assessment' consisted of a DRIRE guy taking a quick look around the car and checking that the lights, seatbelts etc. were okay. He didn't even turn the lights on, or pull the seatbelts. He did insist on us fitting a manufacturer's plate to the car, almost identical to the one that already sits behind the engine and lists the VIN etc., but containing a couple of fields of data that the original didn't have.
To this day, I'm sure that inspection had no value whatsoever, except to get the right bit of beaurocratic paperwork.
Which I did. Hurrah! By this stage, I was over in the UK on business, so my wife took all the correct papers into the Prefecture, only to be turned away again because she wasn't me. I then hurried back to France, and finally got the Carte Grise on the day AXA suspended the already-unofficially-extended insurance. On sight of the Carte Grise, AXA reactivated the insurance, and now all is well.
So that's my tale. If I was to do it again, I'd do a few things differently -
- I wouldn't tell the DVLA about exporting the car, until the French reg was finalised. That's because if declared exported you can't drive it back to the UK until your new reg is complete.
- I'd try going the DRIRE first, stating that Toyota don't have a CoC for the Surf. I'm still not sure that the CoC I waited six months for was really any use once superceded by the DRIRE documents. It's worth a try at any rate.
- I'd try getting it all through without changing the lights. I think it would pass the Controle Technique (after all, my US ones did and they were completely different to spec), and I could always then change them at my lesiure should I want to.
- I'd go with a French insurer happy to give 12months on a UK reg, just in case there are still delays.
As i say, this is just my experience of importing a Surf into Department 87 (Haute-Vienne) during 2004-2005. If I've learned anything about dealing with French beauracracy, it's that everything's different between departments.
I hope that's useful to some of you!
Cheers,
tamper
I've got a 1992 SSR-X, purchased in the UK in 2004. As I live in France most of the time, it was going to be helpful for me to get it properly insured over there. A lot of people with UK-reg cars in France tend to keep with their UK insurance, and just pretend the car is in the UK. I had a few issues with this:
- French insurance tends to be a bit cheaper (though not always true, since it's calculated primarily on the value of the vehicle, rather than horsepower etc.)
- Living in France means that getting the UK tax disc renewed is a bit of an arse.
- If I ever did need to make a claim, the UK insurance is probably invalid anyway (should they ever cross-check with passport records etc.)
So anyway, many French insurers will insure UK-reg cars for a limited period. Some I think do up to 12 months, but we went with AXA (cos they do our house insurance too) which gave us 6 months in which to re-register the car. At that point I told the DVLA that the car was exported. In hindsight that was probably a mistake.
Typically, the holy trinity of French paperwork for obtaining the Carte Grise (registration document) are:
- Certificate of Conformity (a statement by the manufacturer attesting to it's manufactured roadworthiess for France)
- Controle Technique (French MOT certificate)
- Quittance Fiscale (essentially a receipt which shows you've paid for the car)
Not hard, you'd think. In fact, the only easy bit for me was getting the Quittance Fiscale, which was free and just required me to go to my local Hotel des Impots with my original receipt.
I needed to request the Certificate of Conformity (CoC) from Toyota France. After a couple of weeks trying to get hold of the right department to contact, I eventually got address and price details. I sent off a cheque for 115 Euro, along with a copy of the UK reg papers and (as requested) some photos of the car.
I'd expected that the CoC would give me an indication of anything that needed to be changed on the car. I was pretty sure the headlights would need to be changed, since the beam points in the wrong direction for France and, annoyingly, Surf headlights aren't adjustable like that. However ordering parts and booking any work in was going to be a major undertaking, so I waited for the CoC to arrive, just to be sure.
And waited. It took Toyota six months to send the CoC, and even then it wasn't one for the Surf (i.e. not the LN130). I suspect it was for a 4Runner (incidentally, just called the 'Runner' in France if you're interested) but not sure.
In the midst of this, the car developed some problems. The speedo broke (needle wouldn't move) and the brake lines started leaking fluid over the discs (nice and safe, obviously). So in it went to the local Toyota dealer (this is still with me waiting for the CoC) who gave an estimate of 4 days for repair. I think in total they had the car for 5 weeks, with a final bill of 1800 Euro. Still, at least now I could tell what speed I was going, and my risk of killing pedestrians when braking for a zebra crossing was significantly reduced. I did ask them whether they knew what was required for French conformity, but they couldn't give conclusive answers.
Still waiting for the CoC (and getting more and more furious at Toyota's inaction) I decided to order some lights anyway. The dealer had quoted me 200Euro per light, which i thought was ridiculous. I then had the bright idea (har har) of ordering lights from the USA, since they also drive on the wrong side of the road. Some Ebaying later, I had a price - $69 each, plus $25 to ship the pair. Done.
Lights came, and bar some minor connectivity issues (detailed in another thread) I got them installed correctly in the car. Still frustrated at waiting for the CoC, and with our 6-month limit rapidly approaching, we booked in the car for its Controle Technique (MOT). It passed, but with some concern over the lights - which (being US) threw out in the right direction, but with completely the wrong beam pattern. The CT guy told me that he wanted them changed before the next CT (every two years), but when I told him I was trying to get a Carte Grise, was at pains to explain that the Controle Technique is not an indication of import roadworthiness. I still think that's just nuts, but c'est la France.
Somewhat broken-spirited by this stage, I bit the bullet and bought some French lights - 180Euros each. I reasoned that tt was going to have to be done at some stage...
Anyway, the CoC finally came. I had that, the Quittance Fiscale, and the Controle Technique certificate, so off to the Prefecture I skipped, praying that all was in order. No such luck. The sour-faced Prefecture guy took one look at the CoC from Toyota and sent me away again. The CoC listed specific differences between my Surf and the car (let's say a 4Runner) to which their records referred. Specifically:
- Lights (direction of, and the fact that they wouldn't have a European 'E' stamp on them)
- Seatbelts (same thing about the 'E' stamp)
- Right-hand drive (like I can do anything about that!)
- Automatic (ditto)
- Bullbar on the front (frowned upon)
It turns out that these differences had to be independently assessed by the DRIRE (not sure what the UK-equivalent is, but for any Kiwis it's roughly the same as the LTSA). DRIRE are the government department responsible (amongst other things) for all this vechicle testing and roadworthiness stuff. Another appointment, more waiting, more money.
The 'assessment' consisted of a DRIRE guy taking a quick look around the car and checking that the lights, seatbelts etc. were okay. He didn't even turn the lights on, or pull the seatbelts. He did insist on us fitting a manufacturer's plate to the car, almost identical to the one that already sits behind the engine and lists the VIN etc., but containing a couple of fields of data that the original didn't have.
To this day, I'm sure that inspection had no value whatsoever, except to get the right bit of beaurocratic paperwork.
Which I did. Hurrah! By this stage, I was over in the UK on business, so my wife took all the correct papers into the Prefecture, only to be turned away again because she wasn't me. I then hurried back to France, and finally got the Carte Grise on the day AXA suspended the already-unofficially-extended insurance. On sight of the Carte Grise, AXA reactivated the insurance, and now all is well.
So that's my tale. If I was to do it again, I'd do a few things differently -
- I wouldn't tell the DVLA about exporting the car, until the French reg was finalised. That's because if declared exported you can't drive it back to the UK until your new reg is complete.
- I'd try going the DRIRE first, stating that Toyota don't have a CoC for the Surf. I'm still not sure that the CoC I waited six months for was really any use once superceded by the DRIRE documents. It's worth a try at any rate.
- I'd try getting it all through without changing the lights. I think it would pass the Controle Technique (after all, my US ones did and they were completely different to spec), and I could always then change them at my lesiure should I want to.
- I'd go with a French insurer happy to give 12months on a UK reg, just in case there are still delays.
As i say, this is just my experience of importing a Surf into Department 87 (Haute-Vienne) during 2004-2005. If I've learned anything about dealing with French beauracracy, it's that everything's different between departments.
I hope that's useful to some of you!
Cheers,
tamper
Surf which was imported by me and registered in UK in October 2004. [This date has some significance possibly as it is post June 2004 when some kind of Euro- harmonization of Car Reg documentation took place - does anyone know more about this ?]
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