Poor starting on, errrr....alternative fuel!

[robbieh]

Hi all,

I've a question for all those who have tried, and still use, a mixture of diesel and veg oil in their Surfs...

Has anyone found it makes their Surf a pig to start from cold??

I've an LN130 with the 2L-TE lump (2.4DT Efi) and have had a go at running 50:50. When starting from cold it misses like a pig for about 5>10secs accompanied with plenty of smoke . After this period it runs fine and you wouldn't know it was being run on anything but derv (except for the MEGA obvious smell...even my old mum thought I'd arrived at hers with a large portion of chips!! ). Hot start is not a problem.

I'd be interested to hear about any similar experiences.

Rob.

[kitesurf_phil]

Hi all,

I've a question for all those who have tried, and still use, a mixture of diesel and veg oil in their Surfs...

Has anyone found it makes their Surf a pig to start from cold??

I've an LN130 with the 2L-TE lump (2.4DT Efi) and have had a go at running 50:50. When starting from cold it misses like a pig for about 5>10secs accompanied with plenty of smoke . After this period it runs fine and you wouldn't know it was being run on anything but derv (except for the MEGA obvious smell...even my old mum thought I'd arrived at hers with a large portion of chips!! ). Hot start is not a problem.

I'd be interested to hear about any similar experiences.

Rob.

Don't worry. It is perfectly normal. You should hear how 2.4s splutter when started from cold on 80%. It takes 10-15 seconds for them to settle down.

[That Ruddy Squirrel]

Hippo sometimes coughs a bit when starting from cold, but she soon settles down and she runs on all manner of mixtures.


Trev

[Morr]

Try giving the glow plugs an extra cycle before starting. If your finding it a bit rough on initial startup, I'd suggest that you are using too high a ratio which may result in some coking of the injectors. You want to avoid this as it can be a vicious cycle, coking leading to improper atomisation of veggie leading to further coking etc. Perhaps your injectors require attention, maybe at minimum you should consider trying some fuel system cleaner.
This is why I always advocate fully researching the topic and starting off gradually, using a low ratio mix and increasing until you find your ideal ratio.
The ideal ratio will vary from case to case, as such elements as compression, ambient temperature, type/brand of veggie and diesel will all affect the way your engine reacts to the veggie mix.
Use of high ratios (actually anything over about 25% veggie) is really dependant on either fitting a conversion of some type, or experimentation to find the ratio that will work in your particular situation.
In my case I've run up to 80% veggie in 16+ Celsius temperatures, mine starts normally and with no splutter of hesitation, this certainly does not mean that all other Surfs. or even 3.0 surfs will react identically.

Its all trial & error really.

[chunkymonkey]

Vegetable oil only burns cleanly when hot, so when starting from cold, the veg oil part of the mix does not fully atomise, causing large droplets of uncombustable fuel, some will be thrown out of the exhaust and the remainder accumulates on the pistons and bores, causing engine oil contamination, (although with the surf service interval this isn't a problem)there is also a risk of polymerisation which can damage surfaces on bores and valves.

Giving the glow plaugs an extra shot seems like a plan - or you could try fitting an electric pre-heater - but for 10-15 secs it doesn't seem worth it!

[Chillitt]

http://www.maesco.com/products/racor...dfh_intro.html something like this help?

[Linda]

Philip and TonyN are working on an inline fuel heater/fuel cat device to help with this exact issue. 1st prototype is installed on Philips truck and one is going on the Bullet imminently. These are in line heaters - but a preheater type device would also be needed for starting on bio. These are available on the net currently, but I dont know anyone who has tried them (unless someone on here with the winter pack has a preheater and has tried it with bio?)

[Philip]

Update

I have now been running on 100% veg oil without any problems at all. When starting cold, i have found its better to turn ignition on, then off again, then it starts first time as before, without a splutter. The Fuel Cat unit, heats within 8-10 mins and i find car runs smoother and quieter. I now have solenoids, spare small tank etc for winter time, but hopefully would prefer to heat diesel in line so not to bother with other tank. Depends on price.
Personally, hope to never buy another gallon of diesel again. Like a lot of people, i love big cars, but don't like paying big fuel prices.
Rgds Philip

[robbieh]

I have now been running on 100% veg oil without any problems at all. When starting cold, i have found its better to turn ignition on, then off again, then it starts first time as before, without a splutter. The Fuel Cat unit, heats within 8-10 mins and i find car runs smoother and quieter. I now have solenoids, spare small tank etc for winter time, but hopefully would prefer to heat diesel in line so not to bother with other tank. Depends on price.
Personally, hope to never buy another gallon of diesel again. Like a lot of people, i love big cars, but don't like paying big fuel prices.
Rgds Philip

Hi Philip,
That's really interesting. Do you have any pics of the set up? I'm keen to know what's involved in getting a similar set up on my Surf. Is it pricey? Complicated? (although I know there'll be substantial fuel savings to follow ). All you need to do now is find a way to combat the smell!!!
I followed a little Fiesta diesel the other day while I was in my Avensis. It was soooooo obvious that it was running on veg oil, and that engine probably burns it at a third of the rate of ours!
Rob.