yobit eobot.com

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thinking of using Veg-oil ?

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rica
    replied
    I phoned HMCE and they wouldn't send me the guidance notes for the EX 103 as they were 'updating them'!
    I found some info on here last week about how to complete the form but now I look again I cant seem to find it.
    Can anyone tell me where to find the thread about what wording etc to use on the EX103?

    Muchos gracias
    Rica....clearly useless at searching :-(

    Leave a comment:


  • WARRIOR72
    replied
    what an excellent post morr... and the others!! very informative you all have answered a good many questions i had on the matter but didnt want to appear a bone head... thank you all wish me luck!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Donk_UK
    replied
    Ok no replies so if anyones is like me after 2 hours of surfing the governments web site ( which is very poor) I can only find their phone number 0845 010 9000 where you need to request a EX 103 form and register yourself as a Home fuel producer. The on going arguement with home fueling is about the sulpha level in your home made fuel mix where if you say you would be using a percentage of oil with a percentage of pre duty paid diesil you'd be charged the full rate of 46.7p. But if you mix it up in your cars tank your safe and only get charged 27.1p ??? miffed so are they lol.

    The best bet is to read through some of the forums on here http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

    I can get 80ltr of used oil for free at my work each week can't refuse that can i?

    Leave a comment:


  • Donk_UK
    replied
    Enuff's Enuff I have been toying with the Idea of pure veg oil for a while I really like the coolant water idea. I have used up to 50% oil in mine a few times before now with absolutly no probs so far...... except the smell which i happen to really like but as Im not a registered user its not much fun!

    So to add all the info here where do I get hold of C&E please and what sort of stuff shold I be telling em?

    And where can I get some filters to filter used oil from please?

    Thanks all for fueling (lol) this post top job !

    Leave a comment:


  • austinhealey
    replied
    you are right about the rubber seals and pipes, most cars now have neoprine pipes, but it did happen to me once when i used rubber.

    however, this is only a problem when you use biodiesel(methal esters) and not svo. the glyerol from svo is replaced by the methonol in the transestrification process of making biodiesel, and its this methanol that attacks the rubber.

    as for coking, both myself and my mate have both ran landrovers for a few years on svo clocking up over 30,000 miles between us without problems(so far). you tend to hear comments like "it kanckers you engine" from people who have never tried it. in my opinion, as long as you get the oil hot enough to get it to a viscosity similar to diesel,it will be fine.

    I have read threads on adding a solvent to thin the oil down,i've this takes away the lubricational properties of the oil and could lead to increased wear on the engine.

    have fun

    richard

    Leave a comment:


  • the careful driver
    replied
    SVO and Biodiesel fuel technology proving

    http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html

    http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html

    The above two links, from Journey to Forever, all about running diesels on SVO and Biodiesel, identify some possible problems with poor-grade bio-fuels. The major ones seeming to be some degradation of rubber seals (apocryphal), and coking or carbon deposits on injector heads and piston rings, which could be quite bad news.

    I'm just putting them here for reference.

    Journey to Forever seems to favour Specification Grade Biodiesel to Straight Vegetable Oil because it has been 'proved' for longer.

    I'm definitely going to convert to something, so anyone with stuff to add appreciated.

    I'm going to put a sticker on like - Runs on Peanuts - or something. Other suggestions welcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • austinhealey
    replied
    thoughti'd have my two penneth if it helps,

    I run a land rover fitted with a montego turbo diesel on straight veg oil.I have two tanks fitted and use an electric changeover valve. the veg oil lines run through a peugeot 205d heated oil filter with its regulating thermostat drilled out and piped into the engines cooling system in series with the heater pipes. also in series is another heat exchanger made fron some 8mm copper pipe soldered inside some 22mm pipe with a little help from some t pieces and reducers. this allows the engines coolent to flow around the oil in the 8mm pipe.
    the idea being you start on normal diesel for a coulpe of minutes while the coolent warms the veg oil, thus thinning it , then switch the fuel over to run on oil. if you turn off your engine, but are going to restart it within half an hour or so, then leave it on oil. otherwise switch back to diesel for a few minutes before stopping to purge the injector pump of veg oil to leave it full of diesel.
    I have been running on oil for a few years now without problems. in May this year i took my landy to the south of france and back on oil.

    One more thing to point out, you need to pay 27.1p per litre duty on the oil you use. to do this you have to register yourself an a fuel producer with customs and excise, something i did in my days of making proper biodiesel. You get a form around the middle of the month with which you declare all the oil you "used" from the previous month.

    Hope this is of interest to anyone

    Richard.

    p.s. please excuse spelling and grammer, i cant find the spell checkker.

    Leave a comment:


  • markyw
    replied
    veg oil as fuel

    Before i owned my surf i owned a 1996 pajero exceed which i ran on 40% veg oil 60% diesel mix, I covered around 5000 miles in 4 monthes. The paj seemed to run smoother and had better compression. The only drawback i had was the smell it was a mix between chips cooking and dougnuts frying . (really did abuse that paj and it never missed a beat)
    Last edited by markyw; 21 August 2005, 23:53. Reason: good memories

    Leave a comment:


  • Chillitt
    replied
    can i just add... http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php
    a veggie oil forum

    Leave a comment:


  • Morr
    replied
    Originally posted by Matt the Cat
    You've just answered all the questions that I was about to ask!
    Thanks for taking the time to point toward a greener direction.
    It's nice to be nice.
    Glad to be of help, I decided to try and put as much information as possible together in one place, as the questions have been asked so often the information is scattered all over the forum and getting harder to locate. The mods have kindly agreed to make this a sticky so hopefully we can keep all the info readily available to all by continuing to add it to this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt the Cat
    replied
    You've just answered all the questions that I was about to ask!
    Thanks for taking the time to point toward a greener direction.
    It's nice to be nice.

    Leave a comment:


  • da SLUG man
    replied
    wouldn't it be great if it was put in the FAQ section!!... but then i guess no-one would read it!

    Leave a comment:


  • andycook
    replied
    looks like a good summary - copying into MS Word, then i can pretend I am writing my report this afternoon!, whilst reading it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Draig
    replied
    Nice one mate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morr
    replied
    .............................. ......................... Cont.......................... .........................



    The method favoured by most Surf owners appears to be simply mixing veg-oil with diesel.

    Before staring to experiment with this you should first ensure that your Surf is in otherwise good running order, particularly with regard to the fuel system. If you have any leaks or indeed any suspicions regarding the condition of your fuel system, have them properly checked by a competent person before commencing. You should also change your fuel filter and have another on standby, as the veg-oil can have a tendency to lift any dirt or sludge accumulated on the bottom of your tank, this could quickly block even a new filter.

    At this point you are kind of on your own, different engines will tend to accept differing levels, this will be due to many factors including ambient temperature and overall wear and condition of the engine and its fuel system. In warmer weather, say above 14°C, many users have found up to 50% or greater quantities of veg-oil may be used. At temps of 20°C I have used 80% veg-oil without difficulty. In colder weather, around 6°C during the daytime, 0°C at night I have started and run first thing in the morning with 20% veg-oil without difficulty.

    It’s all about experimentation. Try adding about 12 Litres to your tank (assuming a 60L tank, this is 20%) and top up to full with diesel, see how it runs, check it starts well from cold and does not exhibit any lumpiness or uneven running, if all is well then on your next tank try increasing to say 15 Litres and so on.

    Ideally you should add the oil to a near empty tank and then fill up with diesel, this way the higher flow rate of the diesel being added from the pump will help ensure they mix more thoroughly, this also ensure you know exactly how much veg-oil you have, as you do not have to add the percentage remaining in the tank to that you have just added to calculate your overall ratio.

    Don’t forget that if you settle on say 50% during the summer months, you should reduce it during the winter to avoid the risk of gelling. Remember gelling was mentioned above? This is where both diesel and veg-oil will at lower temperatures have altered viscosity. Initially they will reach what is called their cloud point, where they become opaque (you can’t see thru them) at this point the viscosity will rise greatly, reduce the temperature even further and they reach a gel point, as the name suggests, they turn into a jelly like substance which you can forget about using. To prevent this during the winter months, the oil companies add winterising, or anti-gelling agents to their fuel, and for the same reasons you may have to use a higher ratio of diesel fuel in the colder months. Once again the level required is down to experimentation.

    A reasonable level of veg-oil use would appear to range from 50% in the summer to 20% in the winter.



    Another point to note, use of any fuel in a moving vehicle requires the payment of various duties in most countries. Using veg-oil without paying such duties would be a similar (if not the same) offence as using rebated diesel such as Red or Green diesel.



    In the UK you can register with C&E, which if done correctly (with no help from them of course) will result in your paying a reduced rate of duty on your more environmentally friendly fuel. * See Edit below



    I must emphasise again that you use any alternative fuel entirely at your own risk. You should research the topic and satisfy yourself that you understand what you are doing and the possible results before proceeding.





    Remember too the many, many advantages of using these more alternatively friendly fuels, be it…

    SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil) – Regular Veg oil from your supermarket

    PPO (Pure Plant Oil) – Basically the same as SVO, often prepared specifically for vehicle use.

    WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) – Old oil from restaurants etc, filtered, de-acidified, washed etc.

    Biodiesel – Fuel manufactured by a chemical process called transesterification



    Your choice of fuel can help reduce your countries dependence on imports and the oil producing nations and improve its balance of payments.

    Provide more employment in your home country, thru increased use of set aside land and local oil production facilities.

    Have a neutral impact on CO2 emissions as the quantity of CO2 emitted when burned is consumed by the replacement plant during its growth cycle.

    Substantially reduce the emission of carcinogenic and other noxious particles.



    So using veg-oil in place of diesel is not just good for your wallet, its good for your countries economics, and better for the environment. You, your country, and everyone on the planet stands to benefit if sufficient numbers of people make the switch.





    Edit 20/1/06

    It would appear that the UK C&E are now refusing to accept the use of SVO as qualifing for the reduced rates of duty. See further down this thread and also this thread

    If using SVO, any type of veg-oil will do, Sunflower, Rapeseed, Maize, Corn etc etc. Just use the cheapest as there is little real difference.


    Addition 27/1/06

    In response to a question on another thread......

    What to do if your fuel mix has gelled due to low temperatures....


    This would depend on just how cold it is and how throughly the fuel has gelled.

    Initially the fuel in the lines and pump would gel. More extreme cold could cause the fuel in the tank to gel, in which case there is no quick way to heat it enough to reverse the gelling.

    If you suspect the fuel in the lines has gelled, get a kettle of hot water and pour it slowly over your injector lines, fuel pump and any other fuel lines accessible within the engine bay (or use a hair dryer - do not use a heat gun). Then cycle the glow plugs 2 or 3 times, this should enable it to start. Let it idle for at least 5 to 10 minutes after this to ensure all is well, as if the fuel in the tank had gelled this method will probably still allow it to start, but it could later die when it cannot draw the gelled fuel from the tank. Leaving it idle for a while to begin to use the fuel in the tank (and recirculate hot fuel back to the tank) will help ensure it does not die whilst on your journey.
    Last edited by Morr; 27 January 2006, 10:12.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X